Lewis Hamilton has led the Canadian Grand Prix from start to finish to take an utterly dominant victory at Montreal. Valtteri Bottas underlined Mercedes' dominance with an unthreatened second place finish, largely ahead of Daniel Ricciardo.
I dont really blame perez. He had to make sure not to give an inch to his teammate.
The team should have been more stern and not let him feel that he had a choice; but i think they realized that if ocon could not pass Perez, he probably had no chance passing the redbull. Anyhow good racing from both, and Force India is far ahead of torro rosso and too far behind redbull for it to make a difference anyway.
Vettel played it too risky in the end, i feel if he is under pressure later down he will crash out. He took a really huge risk with ocon today.
Good race from Stroll. he had a really good car, but still kept it on track.
Kimi.... i don't know what to say.
Alonso's season is depressing he needs to go to renault now. Just take palmer's seat.
If perez was Verstappen people would be cheering him on for being a racer and not conceding to team orders. You all need to give perez a break. Ocon can't expect to get podiums handed to him on a platter.
Vettel was too risky? Based on what exactly? Whatever it takes within the rules ... i would love for you to point out what rule he broke. Everybody complains about processions then now we complain because a driver took a calculated risk and it worked out?
You sure you dont have an issue with it because he minimized the loss of points to Hamilton ?? : )
Ringo is a know troll, who comes out of hiding when Hamilton wins. Nothing to see here.
What was trolling about his (Ringo) quoted post though? Didn't even mention Hamilton. I think giantfan is just being over sensitive as per usual about Merc Ferrari. His post it was that sounded more like trolling when I read it
I think for Merc fans before the race, a 7 point recovery is probably the best they could have hoped for. And who's to say Vettel could not have actually won. So 13 in one race is plenty. Back on top of Constructors as well.
For Ferrari fans, at some points of the race it was starting to look like 25 points lost. So to get back up to 4th place should be more encouraging.
So it could have been better for both camps but it certainly could have been worse. And a very good race to boot.
For the points situation, now I wouldn't even bother. Still a very large part of the season yet to go. It could all still be won, and lost in both championships.
What happened with Sainz and kyvat? He was complaining about something but I couldn't catch it.
After first attempt Kvyat was ahead of Sainz, but while on second Sainz, who started the lap later than Daniil was beating Kvyat times, until Kvyat hitted the wall and caused a yellow flag wich ruined Carlos lap so Daniil will start ahead of Sainz.
Nothing to complain really, but I understand Sainz frustration, he said he couldn´t make one single fast lap, not even in first attempt, because of yellow flags
Sainz was providing slip stream for danny for a lap or two laps and Danny was supposed to return the favour... But he didnt and the team did nothing about it. That definitely would pis a driver off.
Oh thank you both for posting, didn´t notice in Q
So Kvyat or Verstappen doesn´t matter for Sainz, he acts as a teammate while his teammates... And that´s with Sainz scoring 6x the points Kvyat scored till now. One have to wonder if the team is being fair with him
After first attempt Kvyat was ahead of Sainz, but while on second Sainz, who started the lap later than Daniil was beating Kvyat times, until Kvyat hitted the wall and caused a yellow flag wich ruined Carlos lap so Daniil will start ahead of Sainz.
Nothing to complain really, but I understand Sainz frustration, he said he couldn´t make one single fast lap, not even in first attempt, because of yellow flags
Sainz was providing slip stream for danny for a lap or two laps and Danny was supposed to return the favour... But he didnt and the team did nothing about it. That definitely would pis a driver off.
Oh thank you both for posting, didn´t notice in Q
So Kvyat or Verstappen doesn´t matter for Sainz, he acts as a teammate while his teammates... And that´s with Sainz scoring 6x the points Kvyat scored till now. One have to wonder if the team is being fair with him
Sainz should seriously think to leave TR/RB ASAP. They have almost never treated him equally and they are retaining him only because they fear that Verstappen could leave Red Bull in 2018.
Ocon was faster, you can tell because he spent the last third of the race glued to Perez's gearbox (despite having significantly less downforce). As such, he might well have been fast enough to overtake the Red Bull. We'll never know as Perez not only made sure to slow Ocon down to his own snail's pace whilst failing to even stay within a second of the Red Bull. At the end, Vettel basically forced Ocon off the track and Ocon still ended up with his nose grazing Perez's gearbox.
Ocon spent quite some time waiting for the team to sort things, whilst his own tyres were shredding lap after lap. If they had been on different teams then he wouldn't have waited and I think there's a pretty good chance that Ocon would have been celebrating his first podium today as a result.
Yes, Ocon spent last third of the race glued to Perez´s gearbox.... as Perez spent half of the race glued to Ricciardo´s gearbox
That arguing would be correct if Perez was in clean air, but he wasn´t, so his pace was obvously faster than he was able to show while in RBR dirty air, wich means we can´t know who was faster Perer or Ocon.
Add to that Perez spent more time in dirty air when compared to Ocon, then I don´t think a position swap would have been fair at all. Perez should be frustrated chasing the RBR, and as he said himself, swapping position when they were approaching lapped cars would have been unfair to him, as that was his only opportunity to pass Ricciardo.
And mentioning Carlos Slim does not add anything to the dicussion, except if you´re putting in doubt Checho talent. I hope that´s not your intention...
So, a number of Web publications went wrong in assessing the Merc's tyre situation. The one publication that was used as a reference on the race thread before the practice began, was from AMUS.
A member here posted this.
Amus expects Merc to struggle here aswell. They need fast corners to get and hold the tires in the window. Canada with its stop&go nature makes it hard. Some of the deficit might be compensated by The engine / PU.
What puzzled me when the bold predictions were being made about Mercedes struggling on tyres, is a simple fact that people were missing that this a totally different circuit to Monaco and ignoring the evidence of previous race of Spain where Merc was faster through the slower S3 sector.
There could yet again be places where Merc might struggle again if they do not fully understand the issues. Toto admits that they don't know the "Holy grail" of tyre issues. But to blindly and boldly concur that Merc is going to struggle was quite amateurish, instead of waiting to see what unfolds.
I was using a simple logic to see if Merc are going to be good or not on tyres and that was, if they were going to take a lap longer than Ferraris to put temperature in tyres, they are in trouble. If they just take as many laps are Ferrari are taking to get the tyres upto temperature and coming closer to Ferrari's lap times, then they are in good shape. Practice times confirmed my feeling and I sort of expected a close fight for pole and race win.
This is a track that should favor Mercedes. They still have a power unit advantage. Especially evident in qualifying. I don't see Ferrari beating them there. Both Hamilton and Bottas are typically good there too. Predict a Mercedes 1-2.
And the fact that they cant get the ultrasoft to work just doesnt matter right?
Your prediction would be perfect in 2016... not 2017...
Like always, we'll have to wait and see. Canada is a different type of track under different conditions. Mercedes could hit the sweet spot.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on 12 Jun 2017, 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
Bad race for Carlos, I think he will learn from it. But those incidents are something usual on narrow tracks.
I think they´ve been too harsh with Carlos. When you watch the replay from the helicopter, Grosjean still had more than a full meter of tarmac at his right, so not that Carlos force him out of track exactly. At a start you can´t ask a driver to let more than a car width at each side, and there was more than a car width at his right
Sincerely, to me it looked more like a usual racing incident, a three position penalty for next GP to me look too harsh considering the traffic and free space at Grosjean right side
Bad race for Carlos, I think he will learn from it. But those incidents are something usual on narrow tracks.
I think they´ve been too harsh with Carlos. When you watch the replay from the helicopter, Grosjean still had more than a full meter of tarmac at his right, so not that Carlos force him out of track exactly. At a start you can´t ask a driver to let more than a car width at each side, and there was more than a car width at his right
Sincerely, to me it looked more like a usual racing incident, a three position penalty for next GP to me look too harsh considering the traffic and free space at Grosjean right side
I agree, they aren´t usually so hard when the incident is in the first lap but I guess sometimes they "over-react" based on the spectaculary of the accident and if there are several drivers affected. Anyway, Carlos has apologized to Grosjean and Massan on Twitter, so I think he blames(partially) himself too.
Verstappen had a brilliant start, amazing work there to get that on P2, such a heartbreak and disbelief to see his car bail on him.
100% sure he would have finished P2, a very very far possibility would have been he might have put some pressure on Lewis for P1 but i think in the end it was always
going to be Lewis P1. well, that didn't happen so......
Ferrari once again favouring vettel like crazy. Nevertheless outstanding drive from Vettel and kudos to him for respecting Max' move and not making a biggie out of it.
Raikkonen nevertheless was driving like a wet towel, even if his car would have issues, that was just messy.
Alonso great performance, too bad the usual happens. Great thing in the crowd.
VanDoorne once again not worthy. Really, what an absolute useless driver.
Sainz is a great driver, but this was just absolutely stupid to push grosjean on the grass, he had him covered and did not need to push him there. what a mess.
Kvyat GREAT drive today, drove his heart out, MOST SCR*WED driver in the history right now, that was undeserving and uncalled for from the FIA.
A) Daniil did overtake during the final stage of the VSC period BUT he gave his place back IMMEDIATELY. that should have gone as 'no further action warranted'.
B) he actually got a penalty, and then it was the FRIGGIN WRONG ONE
C) FIA actually gives him the 'CORRECT' penalty ON TOP OF IT, so he got penalized double. Should have left it at that, again 'no furhter action warrented', OR at the tops give him a 5+ penalty to fix the issue. WHAT THE FLYING F*CK WAS THAT
i call for a charlie whiting boycot and resignation. this has gone on long enough. ditch that worthless bag of sand.
Ocon - AMAZING drive, he should have gotten on P3, Perez' s a bish for that nonsense stuff , his post-race interview was bollocks.
Perez - deserves a team reprimand and warning, what an *sshole. I'm a fan of him somewhat, but this lowers my view on him significantly.
Ricciardo - good stuff, very solid and concistant, but then, also, really gray and boring.
Hulkenberg - great stuff too, really.
Driver of the day for me though is:
MAGNUSSEN.
Boy showed some really proper racing sunday, drove his heart out, defended classfully, overtook bravely, and did outstanding.
and offcourse, biggest dunce of the pack is Joylon Palmer. get that embarrasment out of there, asap.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Bad race for Carlos, I think he will learn from it. But those incidents are something usual on narrow tracks.
I think they´ve been too harsh with Carlos. When you watch the replay from the helicopter, Grosjean still had more than a full meter of tarmac at his right, so not that Carlos force him out of track exactly. At a start you can´t ask a driver to let more than a car width at each side, and there was more than a car width at his right
Sincerely, to me it looked more like a usual racing incident, a three position penalty for next GP to me look too harsh considering the traffic and free space at Grosjean right side
You are from Madrid, I am guessing you are a fan of Carlos Sainz? Listen, Carlos is a great driver, I am by no means a hater but he did push Grosjean of the track, twice! His excuse (in his own words, post race interview) was that he did not even see him in his mirrors). Even if that is true (which I don't think) that is not good, right? You should always be aware of what is happening around you. If this was the first time I have seen this situation with Carlos I would even be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt but last year in Mexico he did a similar thing to Alonso. In any case, I will probably not have convinced you (and might even receive some derogatory comment as is usual in this forum, maybe not even from you) but a 3 positions grid penalty has been administered already so at least some others also believe what Carlos did here was not totally innocent. I would applaud if Carlos could just say what he did, also in Bahrein where (admittingly not yet up to speed / on the level of anticipation where an F1 pilot should be) Stroll was the victim. It was 100% Strolls fault according to Sainz.
Bad race for Carlos, I think he will learn from it. But those incidents are something usual on narrow tracks.
I think they´ve been too harsh with Carlos. When you watch the replay from the helicopter, Grosjean still had more than a full meter of tarmac at his right, so not that Carlos force him out of track exactly. At a start you can´t ask a driver to let more than a car width at each side, and there was more than a car width at his right
Sincerely, to me it looked more like a usual racing incident, a three position penalty for next GP to me look too harsh considering the traffic and free space at Grosjean right side
Hasn't Grosjean been suspended for a quite similar accident? The main difference was only that Massa was the innocent victim and not Alonso.
Vettel's start wasn't phenomenal, but it wasn't bad either. Verstappen said it was his best launch since he's at red bull, so he pretty much got lucky. Then he just cut Vettel off in his typical no-sh1ts given fashion. Karma is a bitch though. DNF from second. Good.
He has a great start, so it is luck. He has no skills, just so lucky. Then he "cuts Vettel off". Well he was already passed him almost completely and was on the race line. I actually only spotted that they hit in the replay, so light it was. Vettel himself said Verstappen had all the right to be there in his post race interview.
And you seem to believe in Karma and call it good that someone's car fails. You must know what that means. I hope you have a safe drive home tonight.
When they crash there´s at least half a car width at Grosjean right side. Considering how narrow this track is, and how many cars there was all around, to me that´s quite far from pushing anyone off track, even if he wasn´t aware of Grosjean he didn´t push him off track. He wasn´t aware while Grosjean thought he was, and that caused the accident. Racing incident to me, at least while on first lap with so many cars battling
Actually what FIA said about his penalty was simply that he was not aware of Grosjean postion so his movement was careless and potentially dangerous, they say nothing about pushing anyone anywhere
You are from Madrid, I am guessing you are a fan of Carlos Sainz? Listen, Carlos is a great driver, I am by no means a hater but he did push Grosjean of the track, twice! His excuse (in his own words, post race interview) was that he did not even see him in his mirrors). Even if that is true (which I don't think) that is not good, right? You should always be aware of what is happening around you.
Maybe you´re not a hater, but you look like one or you wouldn´t be assuming he´s lying
And no, I´m fan of Alonso, then there are some other drivers I like: Hamilton, Sainz, Ricciardo, Verstappen when I can focus on his driving talent rather than his childish behaviour... but no, Sainz is only growing on me since he performed very similar to Max (despite the points difference due to mechanical problems) and beats Kvyat fair and square. But no fanboyism here, unlike you who assume he´s lying simply because... why exactly? You sincerely think he was pushing his rival out of track at the inner side of the track??? Only a retard would do that, as after that the car will obviously cross the track like it did and there are huge chances it will crash and ruin his own race. Dirty drivers push cars out of track at the outside, not at the inside, that would be utterly stupid
Vettel was too risky? Based on what exactly? Whatever it takes within the rules ... i would love for you to point out what rule he broke. Everybody complains about processions then now we complain because a driver took a calculated risk and it worked out?
You sure you dont have an issue with it because he minimized the loss of points to Hamilton ?? : )
Ringo is a know troll, who comes out of hiding when Hamilton wins. Nothing to see here.
What was trolling about his (Ringo) quoted post though? Didn't even mention Hamilton. I think giantfan is just being over sensitive as per usual about Merc Ferrari. His post it was that sounded more like trolling when I read it
"Vettel played it too risky in the end, i feel if he is under pressure later down he will crash out. He took a really huge risk with ocon today."....
Last edited by turbof1 on 12 Jun 2017, 13:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:no personal commenting, no insulting
So, a number of Web publications went wrong in assessing the Merc's tyre situation. The one publication that was used as a reference on the race thread before the practice began, was from AMUS.
A member here posted this.
Amus expects Merc to struggle here aswell. They need fast corners to get and hold the tires in the window. Canada with its stop&go nature makes it hard. Some of the deficit might be compensated by The engine / PU.
What puzzled me when the bold predictions were being made about Mercedes struggling on tyres, is a simple fact that people were missing that this a totally different circuit to Monaco and ignoring the evidence of previous race of Spain where Merc was faster through the slower S3 sector.
There could yet again be places where Merc might struggle again if they do not fully understand the issues. Toto admits that they don't know the "Holy grail" of tyre issues. But to blindly and boldly concur that Merc is going to struggle was quite amateurish, instead of waiting to see what unfolds.
I was using a simple logic to see if Merc are going to be good or not on tyres and that was, if they were going to take a lap longer than Ferraris to put temperature in tyres, they are in trouble. If they just take as many laps are Ferrari are taking to get the tyres upto temperature and coming closer to Ferrari's lap times, then they are in good shape. Practice times confirmed my feeling and I sort of expected a close fight for pole and race win.
And the fact that they cant get the ultrasoft to work just doesnt matter right?
Your prediction would be perfect in 2016... not 2017...
Like always, we'll have to wait and see. Canada is a different type of track under different conditions. Mercedes could hit the sweet spot.
All fair points but i stand by what i wrote....with nobody pushing Mercedes at the front because of Vettels mishap how are we to conclude that tire woes are over?...i do recall Wolff blameing tire woes on Bottas' mediocre qualy.
Hamilton also said that he tried a new qualy routine and it happenes to work out....we shall find out in Baku i suppose
And that´s with Sainz scoring 6x the points Kvyat scored till now. One have to wonder if the team is being fair with him
