2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

[fiohaa]

the 0.2s shown was not from official FIA data but just shown by the FOM.

do you have a source for that? just curious.
So whats the conclusion there then....FOM just typed in some random numbers in a computer to make it up, before showing it to the tv audiences?

[iotar__]

"Vettel needed "one more lap" to pass Bottas"
- Why don't you overtake someone instead of talking? No, those races are just one lap too short .
- Everyone knows how many laps races last, you adjust pace and chances of wins accordingly. In Austria the chances for Vettel were zero.
- If the race was magically extended by not one but five laps he is not overtaking anybody unless they replace Bottas with Stroll. Reasons: Russia, pace and not overtake friendly track
- It's easier to talk about non existent event than sub-par USs stint (7,5 s / 25 is a gigantic gap) and sub-par combined two stints that closed the gap when it didn't matter.

Hamilton: "I was the strongest"
No, Bottas was the strongest. You were the strongest out of the drivers starting on SS, third best in qualifying and likely third best without a penalty.

Motorsport.com: "Bottas escaped penalty"
Drivers are divided into two categories, those who "escape" penalties, sometimes despite getting them like Vettel in Baku, and those that don't get penalties after investigations like Hamilton in Baku, Spain '16 etc., Gutter journalism.

[RZS10]

do you have a source for that? just curious.

Source was this article, says that the FOM probably measured the time.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 05494.html

And it was not a judgement call, they have predefined limits/tolerances, he was within those - big difference between "within margin X" and looking at it case to case and making a call.

"there is an error of margin for the system". Exactly. And is this "tolerance" included in the FIA rules?

Any forward movement before the lights go out is not legal as is moving when the start signal is given (as stated by the FIA International Sporting Regulation Art. 8.6.1.b & c)

Well you you have the rules and then the way they get enforced, this particular one with a system that has a certain tolerance - all competitors agreed to that solution and it has been in place for 20 years.

[Treble]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130639

So it WAS a judgement call - and they will never reveal the data behind it either.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130639

So apparently there is this so called "tolerance" that only FIA knows. No trace of it in the rules. Only FIA knows.

[Schuttelberg]

Rules are rules? I love the fact Bottas won, but if it was a jump start, it should be properly investigated, or else you will have drivers like Vettel who get every edge they can exploiting these very things next race. E.g.: slowly slipping the clutch just moments before the lights go out. Rules are rules for a reason and they should be consistent across the board, no matter who is in focus.

Isn't that what every F1 driver is supposed to do?

Absolutely, hence the necessity to investigate and punish where appropriate.

Ps: Hamilton on a slide? How so? I find that quite a surprising statement considering the weekend he had. If you are referring to his Q3 lap, well, it wasnt exactly easy on a car set up for SS and not "in the sweet spot"?

I personally feel Bottas did a PlayStation start, but I feel it was completely fair. He gambled by pre-empting and it worked out. Sebastian is stirring an unnecessary pot. He congratulated him and says it was fair but still doesn't 'buy' the start. Found it quite sour grapes!

Hamilton on the slide? I think Hamilton doesn't turn up on some weekends. He had a heartbreak in Malaysia last year and he was somewhere else in Suzuka the week after.
He had another heartbreak at Baku and he was quite anonymous today. I've seen Lewis have these 'penalties' or poor quail's before but he immediately responds on race day.
I think it was Martin Brundle who said on Sky that his mindset isn't as 'on point' as it used to be.. or something along those lines!

Just look at LH in Canada and compare his body language all weekend here. It's just an observation guys, let's not treat my opinion as 'a fact' I'm trying to state.

[Juzh]

The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.

[Wass85]

Isn't that what every F1 driver is supposed to do?

Absolutely, hence the necessity to investigate and punish where appropriate.

Ps: Hamilton on a slide? How so? I find that quite a surprising statement considering the weekend he had. If you are referring to his Q3 lap, well, it wasnt exactly easy on a car set up for SS and not "in the sweet spot"?

I personally feel Bottas did a PlayStation start, but I feel it was completely fair. He gambled by pre-empting and it worked out. Sebastian is stirring an unnecessary pot. He congratulated him and says it was fair but still doesn't 'buy' the start. Found it quite sour grapes!

Hamilton on the slide? I think Hamilton doesn't turn up on some weekends. He had a heartbreak in Malaysia last year and he was somewhere else in Suzuka the week after.
He had another heartbreak at Baku and he was quite anonymous today. I've seen Lewis have these 'penalties' or poor quail's before but he immediately responds on race day.
I think it was Martin Brundle who said on Sky that his mindset isn't as 'on point' as it used to be.. or something along those lines!

Just look at LH in Canada and compare his body language all weekend here. It's just an observation guys, let's not treat my opinion as 'a fact' I'm trying to state.

If that's the case then that's a knock against his professionalism, a driver of his experience and calibre should not be getting his head down in times of trouble. Moments like that should fire him up even more, he was very negative throughout the race and it showed in his performance IMO.

[Phil]

I think some if it needs to be put in perspective. How much does it take to show up race for race and deal with set backs? Hamilton had an extremely difficult year last season. Its easy to focus on Malaysia, yet the difficulty started beginning of the season when his ERS and other conponents prevented him to compete in qualifying multiple times. He then also had to take the grid penalties in Spa, yet it was once again his car that broke down in the crucial moment.

How about this year? On Friday, he play acted that everything was normal until later in the evening it was revealed he would be starting with a grid penalty. That coming off a GP weekend where he pretty much dominated and should have won, if not for that unfortunate headrest coming apart during the race.

IMHO, and i am not saying this cause i happen to support him, but i am slightly annoyed how everyone expects so much of Hamilton all the time. He seems to be a magnet for bad luck sometimes - 2007 should have been his year with such a ridiculous lead in the chalpionship, 2012 was ridiculous and 2014 and 2016 both marked difficult years. On top of that, he has had his fair share of very strong team mates in Alonso, Button and Rosberg. I really dont get it. Vettel can enjoy being out of the lime light because he doesnt have a teammate in Kimi that really seems to push him to the scope Lewis has to usually. Not sure if Bottas will be rated as one of his strong team mates by the end of this year, but so far he has been way more competitive than Kimi.

[TAG]

The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.

Only one of them was railing about it still in the post race interviews. The guy has a hard time letting things go when they don't "go" his way. You can overlook it all you want.

What's the difference between him insisting he'd been brake checked despite the evidence against it, and now insisting that Bottas jumped the start despite him being cleared of it by the stewards? Least he's consistent.

[Treble]

The only conversation about the a possibly jumped start aired was between the Ferrari pit and Vettel. Maybe Vettel could have gotten a better start himself if he wasn't watching Bottas' car?

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.

Only one of them was railing about it still in the post race interviews. The guy has a hard time letting things go when they don't "go" his way. You can overlook it all you want.

I think every pilot can call penalty via radio and discuss about it all the time. Hamilton has talked via radio about the drive trough penalty inflicted to Vettel in Baku race, i don't see where is the problem. Don't conflate the facts, we hold the community to a higher standard here. Some through struggle to meet those standards. Don't be one of those some.

[ClarkBT11]

Good drive from Bottas, Hamilton lost the chance of the podium at the start when the concertin affect made him get of the throttle avoiding a collision, Perez managed to take advantage an get his place back.
I think Mercedes left Bottas out too long on the ultra soft Vettel got a chunk of time back on the undercut, Bottas would of overtaken Kimi regardless of when he pitted.
What a streak for the honey badger is this five podiums in a row he must be chuffed, his smile never gets old.

[Edax]

In my opinion, Austria was another exclamation mark to what I've believed in since 2016, which is Lewis is on the slide. His 'off' weekends are getting more and more frequent while he retains his usual untouchable brilliance on others.

Are you factoring in his replaced transmission and subsequent grid penalty on the slide? It's a long season, don't worry he'll pull it out with plenty points to spare, especially now that Ferrari is beginning to falter on the development front, Vettel will feel the effects of grid penalties soon enough, he'll be sliding as well.

No he's factoring in Hamilton only doing enough for 3rd on the grid when he has the car to get pole. In the races nowadays he's super cautious which costs him potential podiums when there's the opportunity. He's been driving like this for a couple of seasons now.

The "old" Hamilton would have probably ended in the gravel with Ricciardo. And we would probably all call him stupid for spilling good points.

Ricciardo is driving for podiums not points, he would no doubt risk bodywork or worse to stay in third. Hamilton has become more calculated in his driving, and why not, he has the car to carry him through a rough patch? Taking more risk is more likely to cost him a championship than to gain it.

[Wass85]

Have you heard of the saying "He Who Dares Wins?"

Being over cautious can mean winning the title and not, it showed last year with Hamilton.

[PlatinumZealot]

I saw that overtake ending in tears and i know Hamilton rathers the clutch of points than a clutch of gravel!

vettel is still due bad luck gents. Twenty points is nothing.

[CHT]

Bottas's 2nd win does reveal Lewis vulnerability and the superiority of Merc. Before the season starts, many people were saying Lewis will trample over Bottas in Merc. It didnt happen, and neither did it happen to Button or Nico