The Williams F1 Team has finally confirmed that Robert Kubica will make his full time race comeback next year, 9 years after his previously final race in Formula One. The Polish ace has been the team's reserve and test driver during 2018, and will race alongside rookie George Russell.
Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
IMO i would wait until at least he has gotten through preseason before labelling him as a championship contender.
remember he hasnt stepped into an F1 car full time since the crash and despite the promising pace, it is based off of a short term outing.
performance will fluctuate throughout the course of an entire season which btw is several races longer than 2010 when he last raced. Just like schumacher
he may be great, but the years out of the cockpit may have affected his pre 2011 abilities. be prepared for potential non car related disappointments
With WDC capable i firstly mean he atleast was, and there is no doubt about that.
In regards to drivers like, lets just name Palmer for example, that is a huge question mark. Better yet, Palmer is guaranteed not WDC material, same as Magnussen, ericsson etc.
then there are guys that MIGHT be WDC capable drivers, but quite frankly, still either need to grab their first win or have to get some more. People like Perez fall in that category,
Grosjean, Hulkenberg. Bottas used to be in that line, but now he is a GP winner AND he's keeping himself rather well in the neighbourhood of the WDC.
Renault already has a strong driver capable of winning - i definately see Hulkenberg capable of that, let's be clear about that. But that same, again, goes for Perez for example.
So who to hire? another 'just' potential GP-winner like you already have, in the form of Perez? Ocon - that's a curious one still, i think actually he might be a good step up, but let's
wait that one out - ?. Better is to get somebody 'even better'. And then the possibilities become much slimmer, especially with money in the mind.
Because now you are delving into the area of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen, Verstappen, perhaps still Massa [but i think his candle is less than that it once was], and probably to surely Ricciardo. The ONLY driver that is atleast contractually a possibility AND of real interest is Alonso, but then that's still a gigantic question mark for both his own motivation and desire, and what you will offer next season. Raikkonen sure won't go there, he went 'there' from Ferrari before, now he's back at Ferrari. If he doesn't sign with Ferrari for 2018, he stops F1 without a single doubt. Massa is interesting still BUT as i said i think his candle doesn't light as feisty as it once was. He was sortof retired anyway and he'll go nowhere except stay with Williams.
So that leaves nobody - untill the magic wild joker card appeared in the form of Kubica. a Definate WDC capable driver WITH RENAULT before his untimely accident.
In the time there was with Kubica as WDC material Hamilton, Button, Vettel, Alonso, Massa [in better shape and @ Ferrari], Raikkonen, Schumacher, and as the final 2 question marks [ala Ricciardo and Bottas] were Webber and Rosberg - and Kubica was regarded higher of. Kubica was seen as 'up there' with Hamilton and Alonso without question and all he needed was the right material.
I think you could say Kubica was seen more or less the same way as Verstappen. Different achievements and experience levels, but both as promising. I actually think Kubica before his accident would have had a good step above Verstappen right now because Kubica was a more complete, mature and calmer driver than Verstappen is @ this moment in time [not taking anyway from Max, it's just a description].
So long story short;
If his level is the same as it was before the accident - he himself claims it is, and quite frankly, that is enough for me, Robert is not a talk-but-not-deliver guy - then there is no reason to think he can't continue where he left off and he left off as a WDC capable driver in a unfortunately not WDC capable car. Perhaps 2012 would have been interesting when Raikkonen and Grosjean were making some great results with Lotus. Still, the RedBull was miles ahead of the Lotus. Perhaps he would have been at Ferrari alongside Alonso.
Oddly enough, that might have been more damaging to his career, actually than this, imagine that.
And i'm not saying that the car will be championship contender next year. I'm saying his driving capabilities are. 2019 could be much more interesting.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
And i'm not saying that the car will be championship contender next year. I'm saying his driving capabilities are. 2019 could be much more interesting.
You mean you are hoping. We know nothing about Kubica's current capabilies. He will not even know himself untill he gets several races under his belt. Much time has passed, cars are different, tires are different, his competitors are different. His potential team mate Hulkenberg is very very fast.
The thing you claim cannot be proven and is yet to be seen until he's driven at least half a season.
Yet Kubica himself literally claimed he is on the same level as before.
i'll take his word over anybody else, especially armchair specialists.
and what i claim can be proven by his own words
" .....I started with no idea of my reactions, without any warranty. And I found myself."
" .....Everything turned on again immediately because nothing was deleted. "
“ .....I now know that I can get back [to] the driver who I was. And my level of that in 2010 was high, I say this without false modesty.”
more
“This may sound strange, but I’m not an 18-year-old rookie who wants to get to F1 at any cost. I want to be in F1 if I’m 100 per cent sure I’m capable of doing the job. This is the target I would like to achieve. For me there are still a few steps to be done and I will see how I react. But when you get rid of 80 per cent of the doubts you had in one day, it really does give you a fantastic feeling. This is what happened in Valencia.
“I was shocked, to be honest; it was really, really impressive, feeling-wise. I’m not talking about pace there - a few tenths here, a few tenths there - but the feeling and the impression I had, straight away, were amazing."
"If someone called me and asked me to race next week, I wouldn’t do it. It’s not because I don’t feel I’m capable of doing it; I just feel that I cannot rush. It would be a difficult call to say no, of course, but after the accident I worked a lot on my mental comfort, my mental zone, and these months have been the happiest months of my past six years. So I will like to let them go as long as possible, and jumping in too early would bring high risk that things could go wrong."
“If you asked me how much I was realistically thinking that coming back to F1 was possible, I would have put myself up to 10 or maximum 20 per cent chance. Because the clock is running - not just the classification, but also getting older."
Q: -So before was 10 or 20 per cent. Where is that figure now?
"Because I’m very realistic, and I’m keeping my feet on the ground, I’d put it at 80 or 90 percent.”
"limitation things, were gone in three laps, I could concentrate on trying to get back to the proper rhythm. I’m surprised how it felt; it felt for me like I hadn’t driven for one month, not six years.”
so thank you, come again.
sure though, it'll take a while making full judgement. but as i said. he himself claim's he was at 10 or 20 percent confidence before the valencia test. within 3 laps he was at 80,90 percent. he said he'd make a comeback if he's at 100%. He's doing a test in Budapest. you don't do that if you don't think you can make that final 10%. He also will have to do the escape test, i'm sure that will not be an issue either.
so that means not me, but he himself states that he's back at his 2010 shape which, again i quote
"my level of that in 2010 was high, I say this without false modesty.:
and then we get back again round the clock on what i stated in my post, and actually cleared up pretty good enough, that he's thus back like he never left.
and yes, we know plenty about Kubica's current capabilities as they're ALL OVER the news. just hit that google button.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Yet Kubica himself literally claimed he is on the same level as before.
i'll take his word over anybody else, especially armchair specialists.
Personally I'll take nobody's word, not even Kubicas' own. He'll have to prove it if and when he gets a race seat.
Btw you do seem awfully pityfull calling me out for an armchair specialist. You're the biggest one yourself.
and yes, we know plenty about Kubica's current capabilities as they're ALL OVER the news. just hit that google button.
Nobody knows anything untill he actually starts competing. That's the thing you don't seem to grasp. It's not the same as setting a quick lap in testing, or being quick in the simulator.
The whole point I made was that:
- Despite what Kubica says, he nor we will know for sure if "he still got it" untill he competes.
- Circumstances have changed. Who knows how he'll trive in the machinery and against competitors of today.
One of the strength of a WDC contender is to have the mental strength to keep the car in the zone for a full length of a stint and majority of the race. This is where lesser drivers would fail.
Kubica's confidence is stemming from the 2 tests he has done where he was comfortable with himself in that zone. Once he is confident I think his natural ability will take over.
One of the strength of a WDC contender is to have the mental strength to keep the car in the zone for a full length of a stint and majority of the race. This is where lesser drivers would fail.
Kubica's confidence is stemming from the 2 tests he has done where he was comfortable with himself in that zone. Once he is confident I think his natural ability will take over.
Drivers tend to think that they can do what they want, but reality tends to differ. Michael thought he was enough fast to fight for the championship in 2010, he wasn´t .
One of the strength of a WDC contender is to have the mental strength to keep the car in the zone for a full length of a stint and majority of the race. This is where lesser drivers would fail.
Kubica's confidence is stemming from the 2 tests he has done where he was comfortable with himself in that zone. Once he is confident I think his natural ability will take over.
Drivers tend to think that they can do what they want, but reality tends to differ. Michael thought he was enough fast to fight for the championship in 2010, he wasn´t .
Schumacher is slightly a bit different story.
Michael came back to see if he can get another WDC with Mercedes.
His absolute motivations for that remain a mystery to me, but i think he felt Brawn and co would be a re-run of his Ferrari dominance days. I think had he stayed up into 2014, he would have had a chance. I would have loved to see him against Lewis in the Mercedes.
It was reported though after his ski-incident that the motorcycle accident he had before, after retiring with Ferrari, was worse than they had us believe and it actually damaged an artery and caused damage - neurological, actually - and that his motoric functions were somewhat 'affected'. I don't know how much to read into that, but if it is true, and i don't see why it is not, then that more or less mean the Schumacher we saw in 2010 with Mercedes was a handicapped one, perhaps one that wanted to see what he still could, even handicapped. It also - to me - explains a bit Montezemolo's comments that 'this is not the Schumacher we had' that came back.
Offcourse it very well remains to be seen what Robert does. But to be honest, just participating and getting in the points is a bigger achievement than Schumi's Merc comeback. The man nearly lost his hand and arm. it's insane how he still has it and functions, and now can race a F1 car with it.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
One of the strength of a WDC contender is to have the mental strength to keep the car in the zone for a full length of a stint and majority of the race. This is where lesser drivers would fail.
Kubica's confidence is stemming from the 2 tests he has done where he was comfortable with himself in that zone. Once he is confident I think his natural ability will take over.
Drivers tend to think that they can do what they want, but reality tends to differ. Michael thought he was enough fast to fight for the championship in 2010, he wasn´t .
Schumacher is slightly a bit different story.
Michael came back to see if he can get another WDC with Mercedes.
His absolute motivations for that remain a mystery to me, but i think he felt Brawn and co would be a re-run of his Ferrari dominance days. I think had he stayed up into 2014, he would have had a chance. I would have loved to see him against Lewis in the Mercedes.
It was reported though after his ski-incident that the motorcycle accident he had before, after retiring with Ferrari, was worse than they had us believe and it actually damaged an artery and caused damage - neurological, actually - and that his motoric functions were somewhat 'affected'. I don't know how much to read into that, but if it is true, and i don't see why it is not, then that more or less mean the Schumacher we saw in 2010 with Mercedes was a handicapped one, perhaps one that wanted to see what he still could, even handicapped. It also - to me - explains a bit Montezemolo's comments that 'this is not the Schumacher we had' that came back.
Offcourse it very well remains to be seen what Robert does. But to be honest, just participating and getting in the points is a bigger achievement than Schumi's Merc comeback. The man nearly lost his hand and arm. it's insane how he still has it and functions, and now can race a F1 car with it.
I think he was motivated to win a championship with a German team. Just imagine Mercedes and Schumacher winning a last championship. Two legends united. It was too good to turn away that offer. And we alll now how ambitions Michael was.
I don´t know how much this accident affected him, but he was not the same. Not only because he was slower but also because he made more mistakes than usual. Other important detail was that Michael looked more relaxed than ever, smiling more and all this stuff. He didnt look like the "shark" he was in the old times. Perhaps because of this Montezemolo said that it was not the same one, who knows.
I made the previous comment because the comments about about being a possible title contender sounded like an exaggeration. If he comes back, he will deserve all my admiration, and if he can be fast and collect points it would be something beyond amazing.
Drivers tend to think that they can do what they want, but reality tends to differ. Michael thought he was enough fast to fight for the championship in 2010, he wasn´t .
Schumacher is slightly a bit different story.
Michael came back to see if he can get another WDC with Mercedes.
His absolute motivations for that remain a mystery to me, but i think he felt Brawn and co would be a re-run of his Ferrari dominance days. I think had he stayed up into 2014, he would have had a chance. I would have loved to see him against Lewis in the Mercedes.
It was reported though after his ski-incident that the motorcycle accident he had before, after retiring with Ferrari, was worse than they had us believe and it actually damaged an artery and caused damage - neurological, actually - and that his motoric functions were somewhat 'affected'. I don't know how much to read into that, but if it is true, and i don't see why it is not, then that more or less mean the Schumacher we saw in 2010 with Mercedes was a handicapped one, perhaps one that wanted to see what he still could, even handicapped. It also - to me - explains a bit Montezemolo's comments that 'this is not the Schumacher we had' that came back.
Offcourse it very well remains to be seen what Robert does. But to be honest, just participating and getting in the points is a bigger achievement than Schumi's Merc comeback. The man nearly lost his hand and arm. it's insane how he still has it and functions, and now can race a F1 car with it.
I think he was motivated to win a championship with a German team. Just imagine Mercedes and Schumacher winning a last championship. Two legends united. It was too good to turn away that offer. And we alll now how ambitions Michael was.
I don´t know how much this accident affected him, but he was not the same. Not only because he was slower but also because he made more mistakes than usual. Other important detail was that Michael looked more relaxed than ever, smiling more and all this stuff. He didnt look like the "shark" he was in the old times. Perhaps because of this Montezemolo said that it was not the same one, who knows.
I made the previous comment because the comments about about being a possible title contender sounded like an exaggeration. If he comes back, he will deserve all my admiration, and if he can be fast and collect points it would be something beyond amazing.
i suspect when it comes to the mistakes he was making was due to losing his edge due to age or injury. over driving to try and re capture his former ability.
i suspect when it comes to the mistakes he was making was due to losing his edge due to age or injury. over driving to try and re capture his former ability.
During his classic career Michael showed a great adaptability to the car´s capabilites. In consecuence he made only a few mistakes. It wasn´t the case during his return. Too bad that when he was driving quite well(first half of 2012) he car couldnt handle the tyres well.
Ahh that amazing driver Micheal Kubica! I don't know about everyone else but I'm here to read about Kubica updates not opinions on Schumacher's previous return!
Ahh that amazing driver Micheal Kubica! I don't know about everyone else but I'm here to read about Kubica updates not opinions on Schumacher's previous return!
Take it easy, a little bit off-topic won´t kill you. Moreover, we are making a theoretical comparison between both returns and theorizing of the potential handicaps Kubika could have.
