2017 Malaysia Grand Prix - Sepang, 29 September-01 October

[turbof1]

Sky has released Stroll's onboard of the post-race crash with Vettel.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... h-released

Hmmmmm. That changes things a little bit. From Lance's on board it surely looks like Vettel came from behind like a lunatic and side swiped him

He did. He came from behind and drove in to the side of stroll. Then had the cheek to blame Stroll, like he had the cheek to blame Lewis in Baku. Its taken years but we can all see Vettel for the driver he is now. Video shows that exactly. Im sure there will still be a mass of Vettel fans trying to tell me why its strolls fault, just dont waste your time guys.

I neither want to etiquette Seb as a brainless or ruthless driver. That's not all too fair either. I think he's going through a rough spot, just like Hamilton did in 2011 and Grosjean in 2012. Possibly this title fight is weighting on him, with both the drivers and cars being extremely competitive to one another. I can imagine this putting on a huge amount of stress to cope with.

For the record, the footage from Seb's camera is very misleading, with the corner having that harder left bent giving the illusion Stroll is going off his line. I paid attention to when seeing that footage and already noticed Stroll's car was going at a constant radius. However, I can certainly understand people getting the wrong idea of it.

Again, I don't find Stroll blameless completely. In the sense of this was not a race anymore and he should have noticed it sooner. If he did, he could have taken evasive action. I think it is the duty of the drivers to react to any sort of danger at all times when they are in the car.

[TAG]

He may have done it on purpose. Is there a rule post race about fuel measurement just like there is for post qualifying? He may not have had enough fuel to measure otherwise and keeping the car on track due to an "accident" would have solved that. Perhaps this was supposed to be a love tap, but with Vettel's peripheral vision issues...

The bizare thing is that my explanation is the least worrysome of all the other explanations. This has been a unraveling of the guy, simply capitulating under whatever pressure he's under. Both internally and at Ferrari.

[turbof1]

He may have done it on purpose. Is there a rule post race about fuel measurement just like there is for post qualifying? He may not have had enough fuel to measure otherwise and perhaps this was supposed to be a love tap, but with Vettel's peripheral vision issues...

There were comments he was low on fuel. However, I don't see how a crash would absolve him from the fuel measurement. The stewards will have likely deducted the amount of fuel equivalent for driving around the remainder of the lap slowly. They should have that data based on previous races.

Besides, he put his gearbox at risk. Surely there are better ways to crash without harming penalty-risky car parts.

Let's not get into conspiracy theories. It was a case of brains shortcutting it.

[TAG]

is it a thing though? I'm not aware of a rule like that as there is in Q. I'd think if a team chooses to underfuel and runs out, then that's punishment enough. Racing in racing and underfueling in the race is one thing, with a clear danger. In Q I can see why under fueling could be an advantage more than a danger.

[turbof1]

is it a thing though? I'm not aware of a rule like that as there is in Q. I'd think if a team chooses to underfuel and runs out, then that's punishment enough. Racing in racing and underfueling in the race is one thing, with a clear danger. In Q I can see why under fueling could be an advantage more than a danger.

I am almost 100% sure the teams have to submit a sample of the fuel after the race to the FIA, and that sample has to be big enough. It's there to make sure nothing illegal is in the fuel. So if Vettel was planning on cheating concerning fuel, by crashing he actually ensured there was enough of a sample for the FIA to test.

Nothing about crashing intentionally to mask something about the fuel, makes sense.

[TAG]

is it a thing though? I'm not aware of a rule like that as there is in Q. I'd think if a team chooses to underfuel and runs out, then that's punishment enough. Racing in racing and underfueling in the race is one thing, with a clear danger. In Q I can see why under fueling could be an advantage more than a danger.

I am almost 100% sure the teams have to submit a sample of the fuel after the race to the FIA, and that sample has to be big enough. It's there to make sure nothing illegal is in the fuel. So if Vettel was planning on cheating concerning fuel, by crashing he actually ensured there was enough of a sample for the FIA to test.

Nothing about crashing intentionally to mask something about the fuel, makes sense.

that's the idea which is fine and good but given all of the videos, it would have been executed a little bit heavy handedly. certainly not as intended.

[Restomaniac]

Hmmmmm. That changes things a little bit. From Lance's on board it surely looks like Vettel came from behind like a lunatic and side swiped him

He did. He came from behind and drove in to the side of stroll. Then had the cheek to blame Stroll, like he had the cheek to blame Lewis in Baku. Its taken years but we can all see Vettel for the driver he is now. Video shows that exactly. Im sure there will still be a mass of Vettel fans trying to tell me why its strolls fault, just dont waste your time guys.

I neither want to etiquette Seb as a brainless or ruthless driver. That's not all too fair either. I think he's going through a rough spot, just like Hamilton did in 2011 and Grosjean in 2012. Possibly this title fight is weighting on him, with both the drivers and cars being extremely competitive to one another. I can imagine this putting on a huge amount of stress to cope with.

For the record, the footage from Seb's camera is very misleading, with the corner having that harder left bent giving the illusion Stroll is going off his line. I paid attention to when seeing that footage and already noticed Stroll's car was going at a constant radius. However, I can certainly understand people getting the wrong idea of it.

Again, I don't find Stroll blameless completely. In the sense of this was not a race anymore and he should have noticed it sooner. If he did, he could have taken evasive action. I think it is the duty of the drivers to react to any sort of danger at all times when they are in the car.

For me it's this.
Driver A is in front and doesn't have the full picture due to him only having wing mirrors as a vantage point. That same driver is turning away from a collision.
Driver B is behind and has the full picture in front of him. That same driver is turning into a collision.

Very hard to blame driver A in that situation.

[turbof1]

is it a thing though? I'm not aware of a rule like that as there is in Q. I'd think if a team chooses to underfuel and runs out, then that's punishment enough. Racing in racing and underfueling in the race is one thing, with a clear danger. In Q I can see why under fueling could be an advantage more than a danger.

I am almost 100% sure the teams have to submit a sample of the fuel after the race to the FIA, and that sample has to be big enough. It's there to make sure nothing illegal is in the fuel. So if Vettel was planning on cheating concerning fuel, by crashing he actually ensured there was enough of a sample for the FIA to test.

Nothing about crashing intentionally to mask something about the fuel, makes sense.

that's the idea which is fine and good but given all of the videos, it would have been executed a little bit heavy handedly. certainly not as intended.

Yes, but again the stewards will have deducted the amount of fuel to see if he had enough fuel left for getting back into the pits and handing off the required amount of fuel for the sample. TAG, I know you love a good story and I know you see one in this, but let's keep this for a fictional character, let's say Sebastian Allebremzenloss

[cooken]

Folks, let's not forget Stroll had his eyes on Grosjean who was coming up on the inside, to his left, and was leaving enough room there. Those mirrors are ---, and Vettel was closing up quicker than most would expect on a cooldown lap. I find it hard to see what else Stroll could have done differently. He had already left enough room for one car, there was no way to know another one was going to come around the outside.

[Vanja #66]

Stroll is definitely not following the corner as was notable from Grosjean's on board, just by looking at the inside line and how far left it "goes". You can even see how much his line changes compared to corner radius by looking at strips where two asphalt tracks merge. Also, as expected, Stroll wasn't looking at his right for a moment...

[TAG]

TAG, I know you love a good story and I know you see one in this, but let's keep this for a fictional character, let's say Sebastian Allebremzenloss

A good story is everything we should ask of life! I think we're done in Malaysia, my focus now is 100% on Japan. Suzuka and those lovely lovely French curves throughout.

[drunkf1fan]

Hmmmmm. That changes things a little bit. From Lance's on board it surely looks like Vettel came from behind like a lunatic and side swiped him

He did. He came from behind and drove in to the side of stroll. Then had the cheek to blame Stroll, like he had the cheek to blame Lewis in Baku. Its taken years but we can all see Vettel for the driver he is now. Video shows that exactly. Im sure there will still be a mass of Vettel fans trying to tell me why its strolls fault, just dont waste your time guys.

I neither want to etiquette Seb as a brainless or ruthless driver. That's not all too fair either. I think he's going through a rough spot, just like Hamilton did in 2011 and Grosjean in 2012. Possibly this title fight is weighting on him, with both the drivers and cars being extremely competitive to one another. I can imagine this putting on a huge amount of stress to cope with.

For the record, the footage from Seb's camera is very misleading, with the corner having that harder left bent giving the illusion Stroll is going off his line. I paid attention to when seeing that footage and already noticed Stroll's car was going at a constant radius. However, I can certainly understand people getting the wrong idea of it.

Again, I don't find Stroll blameless completely. In the sense of this was not a race anymore and he should have noticed it sooner. If he did, he could have taken evasive action. I think it is the duty of the drivers to react to any sort of danger at all times when they are in the car.

But Stroll reacted before the impact, it might not be visible here but SKy have done a video of it, just before impact when he sees Vettel he starts to turn left harder but it's far too late. Vettel on the other hand never changed his hand position yet had several seconds warning of the coming impact.

Stroll reacted the second he saw him, Vettel didn't react at all, long after seeing him. I honestly don't know how you could blame anyone but Vettel in this situation. Vettel doesn't slow for a corner, doesn't assume a driver might drift into the rubber even though most drivers will on the in lap as Vettel has done for a decade himself.

Stroll attempted to avoid a collision the instant he saw the danger, Vettel pretty much chose not to avoid a collision when he had ample opportunity to do so.

[drunkf1fan]

Stroll is definitely not following the corner as was notable from Grosjean's on board, just by looking at the inside line and how far left it "goes". You can even see how much his line changes compared to corner radius by looking at strips where two asphalt tracks merge. Also, as expected, Stroll wasn't looking at his right for a moment...

Watch Sky's video on it, pretty much wrong there, yes he's drifting out but slowly, the reason he appears to change direction before impact is because Grosjean moves further left, not because Stroll suddenly changes line to the right. Onboard videos skews what you are seeing, the camera itself is moving which changes how things feel. From the 'norm' of a fixed position camera, Stroll looks like he veers right, from the reality which was Grosjean cutting left fairly sharply, Stroll doesn't change his rate of drift at all, the stroll onboard shows his steering input only changes when he sees Vettel and tries to avoid him but it's far too late. The same can be said of Vettel, he never changes his steering input despite 20 times the warning Stroll has.

Actually one other point to make, does Grosjean turn sharply to his left precisely because he sees the impact ahead coming? So is that two drivers reacting before the collision but the one with the most warning and the best view failed to react at all?

[F1NAC]

Stroll is definitely not following the corner as was notable from Grosjean's on board, just by looking at the inside line and how far left it "goes". You can even see how much his line changes compared to corner radius by looking at strips where two asphalt tracks merge. Also, as expected, Stroll wasn't looking at his right for a moment...

Watch Sky's video on it, pretty much wrong there, yes he's drifting out but slowly, the reason he appears to change direction before impact is because Grosjean moves further left, not because Stroll suddenly changes line to the right. Onboard videos skews what you are seeing, the camera itself is moving which changes how things feel. From the 'norm' of a fixed position camera, Stroll looks like he veers right, from the reality which was Grosjean cutting left fairly sharply, Stroll doesn't change his rate of drift at all, the stroll onboard shows his steering input only changes when he sees Vettel and tries to avoid him but it's far too late. The same can be said of Vettel, he never changes his steering input despite 20 times the warning Stroll has.

Actually one other point to make, does Grosjean turn sharply to his left precisely because he sees the impact ahead coming? So is that two drivers reacting before the collision but the one with the most warning and the best view failed to react at all?

He didnt state that stroll suddenly changed his line. He said that his line changes compared to corner radius which is right statement and you said it

[ringo]

Too much focus on stroll who barely moves his steering wheel a milimeter. Vettel who yanks his wheel and swipes across was to blame from the start of the discussion, anyone who cannot see that needs to stop and think objectively.
I'm suprised it's almost a week and we are still discussing why Vettel is not at fault.

As Mark Webber said; Vettel think his car ends at the back of his helmet. And that's the simple crux of this whole discussion. Vettel didn't have any motive to crash his car, it was just a big brain fart on his part.