2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

[Jolle]

I thought thinner air benefited the most powerful engines and make the weaker ones to suffer more. But I may be wrong.

In general, engines (let's use NA motors as a baseline) suffer at altitude because of the thinner air, as you mentioned.

Cool, dense air is best in terms of combustion.

Turbocharged motors, generally, lose less performance than their NA counterparts at higher altitudes. That said, they still lose performance. Altitude requires a higher pressure ratio to maintain the same flow and this pushes the turbocharger toward lower efficiency. Lower efficiency raises heat.

In sum, all teams are going to have to cope with the altitude's effect on the ICE component of the PUs but the teams will try to mitigate this as much as possible with tuning, tweaking, eliminating as much extra heat as possible, etc.

Someone could have been very cheeky and with on one of the TC items, made a compressor a bit bigger...

[drunkf1fan]

well, he plowed twice into vettel in just a few corners after all. and that was not a single incident.

Don't forget that there was absolutely no way at that point he didn't know RBR were negotiating with verstappen about giving him his seat. So it's extremely likely he felt extreme pressure to perform and tried a big move into the first corner which failed. He may have hit Vettel a second time as a kinda screw you, you lost me my seat style reaction, a reaction Vettel is fairly prone to himself. I'm not saying he did but that but I'd understand it if he did.

Ultimately he went into his home race, likely his final race in a top team, knowing really it was a win or nothing, it would be hard for RBR to justify booting a guy who just won their first race of the year and who don't forget beat Ricciardo in 2015.

I think 95% of drivers in his situation that weekend would have crumbled.

[marvin78]

I don't think that there was any negotiating. That's not the way RedBull works (my opinion not a fact). I think this was a one hour act. Kvyat out, Verstappen in.

[Just_a_fan]

Take the Kyvat talk to the RedBull team topic please.

[Restomaniac]

Take the Kyvat talk to the RedBull team topic please.

Why? Has he no been binned for this race?

[Just_a_fan]

A post that says "X binned for this race" is on topic. Stuff about his employer being horrible to him is better discussed in the employer's topic. Discussion about X's crash history is off topic in the race thread.

[godlameroso]

People think Mexico is mount Everest, air is thinner yes, but it's not high enough to make a huge difference. Aero still works, as you'll see 8-11 will be nearly flat.

Cars will still be drag limited to 330kph on their own. This year slip streaming makes a bigger difference with the wider draggier cars. So we may actually see an overtake or two.

Question, where is the best braking and turn in for turn 12? I can never get it right.

[Phil]

I think Mexico is high enough that teams will slap on as much downforce as possible (e.g. Monaco type downforce). Is this not correct? It's what I've been reading on practically every site...?

[godlameroso]

Probably Spain levels.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I think Mexico is high enough that teams will slap on as much downforce as possible (e.g. Monaco type downforce). Is this not correct? It's what I've been reading on practically every site...?

That is correct. Aerodynamic configuration aside, due to the high altitude, the air becomes thinner and that causes cooling issues for the PU components. If the PU is allowed to motor at the same levels as it does normally, then overheating issues are going to potentially damage the PU. The turbo has to overwork to help the PU perform efficiently, which is not going to be efficient either.

On the surface of it, we have not witnessed these problems so far because teams have managed it well and by knows what it takes to perform here.

As for Aero itself, bolting barn door wings is not going to cause a lot of drag either, so cars will be in high downforce configuration mode, with low aero outputs.

It would be interesting to see if the record of 370 kph that Checo hit last year, is going to be possible with these new cars.

[Vasconia]

I thought thinner air benefited the most powerful engines and make the weaker ones to suffer more. But I may be wrong.

In general, engines (let's use NA motors as a baseline) suffer at altitude because of the thinner air, as you mentioned.

Cool, dense air is best in terms of combustion.

Turbocharged motors, generally, lose less performance than their NA counterparts at higher altitudes. That said, they still lose performance. Altitude requires a higher pressure ratio to maintain the same flow and this pushes the turbocharger toward lower efficiency. Lower efficiency raises heat.

In sum, all teams are going to have to cope with the altitude's effect on the ICE component of the PUs but the teams will try to mitigate this as much as possible with tuning, tweaking, eliminating as much extra heat as possible, etc.

Thank you for the explanations!!

Based on what you say and taking into account that Mercedes and Ferrari has the most powerful(and perhaps efficient PUs) should they have an advantage on this track?

[SectorOne]

Based on what you say and taking into account that Mercedes and Ferrari has the most powerful(and perhaps efficient PUs) should they have an advantage on this track?

He´s saying it´s the same deal for everyone regardless of air density.
They will all have less horsepower but the ratio between the engines will stay the same.

[SiLo]

They were running speeds comparable to Monza, with their highest downforce packages on.

That altitude makes quite a big difference. It's 5KM above sea level!

[Restomaniac]

They were running speeds comparable to Monza, with their highest downforce packages on.

That altitude makes quite a big difference. It's 5KM above sea level!

Which begs the question about the drivers. If they are having to work so much harder in these cars how will they cope with the extra workload and less oxygen at altitude.

[JonoNic]

They were running speeds comparable to Monza, with their highest downforce packages on.

That altitude makes quite a big difference. It's 5KM above sea level!

Fyi - it's 2.2km above sea level. Practically the same as Kyalami.

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