2017 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 10-12 November

[Xwang]

How much performance can be obtained by setting the car only for the race without any qualification performance constraints?

[DVB]

Quite a lot. They could run thru data and play on the set-up basically, 5 mins before the start. So tyre temps are in a better window. Tune mapping,...

Super drive from Hamilton. Well deserved WC.

Ferrari should get a boost from this, alltough, the Merc was much faster.

[Schuttelberg]

How much performance can be obtained by setting the car only for the race without any qualification performance constraints?

Helps having a 4 time champion at the peak of his powers as well.

[George-Jung]

Superb drive from Hamilton, just wow!
A shame he didn’t get a podium.

But what about Bottas, in the same car.. he really s#cks.

No. im no Bottas fan, but he did the best he could chasing that ferrari. I don't think he could have got within 2 seconds.
He wasn't great but he didn't suck. Hamilton would have at leasted pressured vettel into an error or pass vettel in the pits. Bottas is a good rear gunner, just not a star driver.
I was disapointed in his lack of bite, but mehh.. can't expect more.

Max looked ordinary today. Almost like a rookie.
I guess when he is on the leader's pace and doesn't have chassis advantage he gets miserable and kills his tyres.
Ricciardo seemed like the more mature and effective driver today.

Hamilton was passing cars left and right- he even made Verstappen look ordinary today..

Bottas is under performing, the car is capable of so much more- as Hamilton did proof today; at one point Hamilton was 19 places up.. just wow.

[drunkf1fan]

I have no idea why you guys think he's not under parc ferme rules. First off, you can't just guess setup and get it bang on, the driver has to like how the car feels and know how to drive the car the way it feels, that is what comes from practice, so just arbitrarily guessing at a completely different setup would be suboptimal for the race than using a setup Hamilton had settled on and decided felt best to him. Secondly, he's under parc ferme rules the second he leaves the garage in qualifying. From that point they can't make setup changes and due to damage you can only replace like for like parts. Outside of a couple turns of the wing as you can do at pitstops there is little to nothing they can do so he had precisely zero advantage in changing the car setup for race only, that would only have been possible if they setup for the race with the pre-decided intention to skip qualifying.

Also as someone said after the race though I forget who, while Ham would have had more laps available to him on higher engine modes, the cars are still pretty heavily tire and fuel limited. Higher engine modes also use more fuel and higher speeds still push more tire wear, pushing as hard as he did took a lot of tires out of the life and you can't just take it easier in corners and say drop a second a lap in corners to save tire life and make it up with a higher engine mode because then you'd run out of fuel. There was certain an engine advantage but it wasn't that big because engine modes aren't at all the only limitation.

The main reason Hamilton was so fast is.... Hamilton is that fast. He's absolutely killing Bottas in track speed and for the same reason Vettel staying ahead of a faster car isn't impressive.

Hamilton easily finished Cota 10 seconds ahead of a Vettel who led the early part of the race yet Bottas wasn't even in contention for 4th place. That's like saying well done for Vettel for beating Bottas in Cota, because he had the slower car.

A car's pace is both what the car can do and how much of that the driver can extract. Every driver says they are pushing after a race because saying it was a painfully easy cruise with no competition upsets fans(they like to believe it's closer than it is). Bottas + Merc isn't anywhere near the same ballpark as Hamilton + Merc. Ham + Merc was faster than Vettel + Ferrari, but Vet/ferrari was faster than Bottas/Merc. Bottas was probably pushing considerably harder than Vettel was. IMO Vettel was in complete control with Hamilton starting so far back and he was just trying to ease Bottas into Kimi to potentially create a 1-2 for Ferrari. I suspect had Hamilton passed Kimi and Bottas with 5 laps to go Vettel would have just ease off into the distance.

[SectorOne]

[media]https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/9 ... 5596221440[/media]

[SectorOne]

Higher engine modes also use more fuel

Pretty sure it´s the other way round.

More power means less time spent on the straights which equals less fuel spent.
Now why don´t they run higher engine modes all the time then? Because they need the engine to last more then one race.

[NathanOlder]

@drunkf1fan

Lewis wasn't under parc ferme rules, they changed many parts and some of those were a different spec. If he kept all the same parts he would have started on the grid.
at least thats how i see it.

[foxmulder_ms]

What this race showed Bottas will have 0.1% of being a champion.

It was fun to watch Lewis's and Ricardo's overtakes.

[NathanOlder]

Wouldn't say 0.1% because if Merc make a beast next year (which is like 50/50) and then if Lewis has mechanical issues, bottas will win the title. Like Nico 2016. So id say Bottas has 25% chance

[Restomaniac]

I have no idea why you guys think he's not under parc ferme rules. First off, you can't just guess setup and get it bang on, the driver has to like how the car feels and know how to drive the car the way it feels, that is what comes from practice, so just arbitrarily guessing at a completely different setup would be suboptimal for the race than using a setup Hamilton had settled on and decided felt best to him. Secondly, he's under parc ferme rules the second he leaves the garage in qualifying. From that point they can't make setup changes and due to damage you can only replace like for like parts. Outside of a couple turns of the wing as you can do at pitstops there is little to nothing they can do so he had precisely zero advantage in changing the car setup for race only, that would only have been possible if they setup for the race with the pre-decided intention to skip qualifying.

Also as someone said after the race though I forget who, while Ham would have had more laps available to him on higher engine modes, the cars are still pretty heavily tire and fuel limited. Higher engine modes also use more fuel and higher speeds still push more tire wear, pushing as hard as he did took a lot of tires out of the life and you can't just take it easier in corners and say drop a second a lap in corners to save tire life and make it up with a higher engine mode because then you'd run out of fuel. There was certain an engine advantage but it wasn't that big because engine modes aren't at all the only limitation.

The main reason Hamilton was so fast is.... Hamilton is that fast. He's absolutely killing Bottas in track speed and for the same reason Vettel staying ahead of a faster car isn't impressive.

Hamilton easily finished Cota 10 seconds ahead of a Vettel who led the early part of the race yet Bottas wasn't even in contention for 4th place. That's like saying well done for Vettel for beating Bottas in Cota, because he had the slower car.

A car's pace is both what the car can do and how much of that the driver can extract. Every driver says they are pushing after a race because saying it was a painfully easy cruise with no competition upsets fans(they like to believe it's closer than it is). Bottas + Merc isn't anywhere near the same ballpark as Hamilton + Merc. Ham + Merc was faster than Vettel + Ferrari, but Vet/ferrari was faster than Bottas/Merc. Bottas was probably pushing considerably harder than Vettel was. IMO Vettel was in complete control with Hamilton starting so far back and he was just trying to ease Bottas into Kimi to potentially create a 1-2 for Ferrari. I suspect had Hamilton passed Kimi and Bottas with 5 laps to go Vettel would have just ease off into the distance.

He wasn't under parc ferme rules. That was why he started in the pit lane.

[Shrieker]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/9 ... 5596221440

Pretty much everything, then.

[Restomaniac]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/9 ... 5596221440

Pretty much everything, then.

Indeed.
Like I said this morning. Does a new F1 car still have that new car smell?

[Sieper]

Superb drive from Hamilton, just wow!
A shame he didn’t get a podium.

But what about Bottas, in the same car.. he really s#cks.

No. im no Bottas fan, but he did the best he could chasing that ferrari. I don't think he could have got within 2 seconds.
He wasn't great but he didn't suck. Hamilton would have at leasted pressured vettel into an error or pass vettel in the pits. Bottas is a good rear gunner, just not a star driver.
I was disapointed in his lack of bite, but mehh.. can't expect more.

The problem is that Bottas is too passive at times.
Look at turn 1 today. On that first lap he pretty much waved Vettel through.

And in other similar situations he was too agressive, touching others around. It seems when it really comes down to it and split second decisions need to be made he just doesn't have that edge. He was Ok this weekend, just not great.

[Restomaniac]

No. im no Bottas fan, but he did the best he could chasing that ferrari. I don't think he could have got within 2 seconds.
He wasn't great but he didn't suck. Hamilton would have at leasted pressured vettel into an error or pass vettel in the pits. Bottas is a good rear gunner, just not a star driver.
I was disapointed in his lack of bite, but mehh.. can't expect more.

The problem is that Bottas is too passive at times.
Look at turn 1 today. On that first lap he pretty much waved Vettel through.

And in other similar situations he was too agressive, touching others around. It seems when it really comes down to it and split second decisions need to be made he just doesn't have that edge. He was Ok this weekend, just not great.

Indeed.
Didn't he go through a phase of taking others off or causing damage.

I remember him and Raikkonen coming together and him clipping Hamilton causing Hamilton to get gearbox damage requiring a change for the next race.