General Honda F1 Topic

[HPD]

Helmut Marko:
"Honda is very active and has already found something. Maybe they manage to be on the level of Renault with the second engine. Honda had to compromise on the McLaren chassis specification. They could not develop freely and were pretty limited. Alonso has done everything to make the engine look bad. "

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

[Manoah2u]

yeah i'd take it with a grain of salt anyway. it's easy bashing on someone else.

i don't think it would make much sense for Alonso to do 'everything' to make the engine look bad since what does he gain with that?
For what reason? to make Mclaren look better? Really won't do much good, as the end result is that, if the above suggests that Mclaren is (also) largely to blame, then what does that bode with a different engine manufacturer? more of the same non-result?

I'm sure Marko talks positive of Honda anyway because they're partnered now, and downtalks on Mclaren because well, that's what he does anyway and they might become competition with the same engine @ Renault.

Either way, the Honda engine wasn't what it should have been last year. Even if Alonso parked a perfectly well functioning car, that car still had an engine that did not get them anywhere near a point finish when he parked it. So Honda is to blame, and Mclaren is to blame.

But man - i know this is a media article but for them its the same though - for the love of god move on and stop whining/living in the past on who what when if,
and focus on 2018 being better.

[etusch]

Helmut Marko:
"Honda is very active and has already found something. Maybe they manage to be on the level of Renault with the second engine. Honda had to compromise on the McLaren chassis specification. They could not develop freely and were pretty limited. Alonso has done everything to make the engine look bad. "

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

I think Honda Mclaren Future were bad because of that this marriage made by Ron Dennis. If it were go good from start they would keep it (maybe) but... (everyone knows)
I think not only Alo but as a team they did what needed to divorce.
At the end this is not important. We are Toro Rosso supporters now.
I am excited to see New combination and performans of team and Honda PU.

[Talisman]

Unfortunately,not many valuable information from the interviews.Basically,they didnt mention much about the new power unit.

Thanks @hasika. There is no other information?

There is some interesting information. Firstly one point that keeps coming up again and again is how easy STR are to work with which suggests that its a relief working with a team that isn't McLaren. They state that McLaren is run like a business with the races only being a part of it while STR exists solely for racing. They like that STR listens to suggestions, that they are interested in what Honda have to say about the PU and how it can be integrated into the chassis, that they are respectful. James Key has asked Honda to point out anything that could be improved on the chassis side and the relationship makes Honda want to contribute in this way, although at the moment its limited to discussions on radiator design. They haven't been specifically asked to help with the chassis but indicate that if asked they will see what they can do.

One difficulty that has come up with moving from McLaren to STR is that several components were designed and sourced from McLaren and bringing these in-house is a priority. Also McLaren procured the batteries from European suppliers, in the future they will have to be designed and built in Japan, this brings logistical problems as transporting large batteries is an issue.

McLaren obviously has a long and great history in F1 having worked with many works engine supplies and have their own way of doing things and expected Honda to work around their way. Yamamoto states clearly that McLaren often didn't listen to Honda's opinions.

Secondly they openly talk about how the Honda operation is far smaller than Ferrari and Mercedes in particular in terms of staff and budget. Also when questioned as to why Honda hasn't caught up despite rule stability usually favouring those who are behind, they suggest that their rivals have developed a new revolutionary technology that has kept them ahead, and that they think they know (but aren't certain) what that is. They have brought in a lot of component design and production from suppliers to reduce development time and presumably also for quality control, though they say they wouldn't turn down suppliers if they are quicker and better than doing it in-house. They do make a point however that STR is a little like Spirit F1, a team to develop the PU with and to showcase the Honda with a view to moving on to a stronger partner in the future.

They are asked how McLaren will do with Renault and state that the chassis will need improvement if they are to reach the front, but comparing Red Bull and McLaren should be fun. They also laugh that if McLaren men are asked how STR Honda will do in 2018 then they'll probably reply that the PU will have to improve substantially if they are to get anywhere.

[HPD]

They are asked how McLaren will do with Renault and state that the chassis will need improvement if they are to reach the front, but comparing Red Bull and McLaren should be fun. They also laugh that if McLaren men are asked how STR Honda will do in 2018 then they'll probably reply that the PU will have to improve substantially if they are to get anywhere.

This is the best part haha.
Thanks @talisman, I would give +1 but I can not vote

[Wouter]

One difficulty that has come up with moving from McLaren to STR is that several components were designed and sourced from McLaren and bringing these in-house is a priority. Also McLaren procured the batteries from European suppliers, in the future they will have to be designed and built in Japan, this brings logistical problems as transporting large batteries is an issue.

Thank you Talisman.
How can it be a problem that Honda manufactures the batteries in Japan and then has to transport them to England?
During the year, the team must also transport all parts including the batteries from one race to another all over the world.

[etusch]

Unfortunately,not many valuable information from the interviews.Basically,they didnt mention much about the new power unit.

Thanks @hasika. There is no other information?

There is some interesting information. Firstly one point that keeps coming up again and again is how easy STR are to work with which suggests that its a relief working with a team that isn't McLaren. They state that McLaren is run like a business with the races only being a part of it while STR exists solely for racing. They like that STR listens to suggestions, that they are interested in what Honda have to say about the PU and how it can be integrated into the chassis, that they are respectful. James Key has asked Honda to point out anything that could be improved on the chassis side and the relationship makes Honda want to contribute in this way, although at the moment its limited to discussions on radiator design. They haven't been specifically asked to help with the chassis but indicate that if asked they will see what they can do.

One difficulty that has come up with moving from McLaren to STR is that several components were designed and sourced from McLaren and bringing these in-house is a priority. Also McLaren procured the batteries from European suppliers, in the future they will have to be designed and built in Japan, this brings logistical problems as transporting large batteries is an issue.

McLaren obviously has a long and great history in F1 having worked with many works engine supplies and have their own way of doing things and expected Honda to work around their way. Yamamoto states clearly that McLaren often didn't listen to Honda's opinions.

Secondly they openly talk about how the Honda operation is far smaller than Ferrari and Mercedes in particular in terms of staff and budget. Also when questioned as to why Honda hasn't caught up despite rule stability usually favouring those who are behind, they suggest that their rivals have developed a new revolutionary technology that has kept them ahead, and that they think they know (but aren't certain) what that is. They have brought in a lot of component design and production from suppliers to reduce development time and presumably also for quality control, though they say they wouldn't turn down suppliers if they are quicker and better than doing it in-house. They do make a point however that STR is a little like Spirit F1, a team to develop the PU with and to showcase the Honda with a view to moving on to a stronger partner in the future.

They are asked how McLaren will do with Renault and state that the chassis will need improvement if they are to reach the front, but comparing Red Bull and McLaren should be fun. They also laugh that if McLaren men are asked how STR Honda will do in 2018 then they'll probably reply that the PU will have to improve substantially if they are to get anywhere.

Thank you very much talisman.
Mclaren says Honda haven't got F1 culture but just say this. Honda didn't directly says this but says reasons mean Mclaren haven't got F1 culture. Good answer. But better answer will be inseason and I expect they both will try to show Max speeds. I said a few times that Mclaren will try to show everyone with early fastest laps at just from first tests that how right they are by swapping pu

[Snorked]

One difficulty that has come up with moving from McLaren to STR is that several components were designed and sourced from McLaren and bringing these in-house is a priority.

I'd love to know what components. Yamamoto previously mentioned hybrid parts but offered no details, can Wazari say what McLaren supplied?

[lio007]

Thank you Talisman!

I really don't understand, when they have a lot less manpower and budget compared to Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe even Renault, why they don't hire staff or increase the Budget. I know that's not the silver bullet, but it can not hurt.

[bigblue]

Also when questioned as to why Honda hasn't caught up despite rule stability usually favouring those who are behind, they suggest that their rivals have developed a new revolutionary technology that has kept them ahead, and that they think they know (but aren't certain) what that is.

Someone had to highlight this bit ... TJI etc or something else ? Guess there's no way to know, but the "aren't certain" bit sort of hints they're not talking about TJI (at least to my interpretation). Odd, if accurately translated.

[Wazari]

One difficulty that has come up with moving from McLaren to STR is that several components were designed and sourced from McLaren and bringing these in-house is a priority.

I'd love to know what components. Yamamoto previously mentioned hybrid parts but offered no details, can Wazari say what McLaren supplied?

Battery pack, wiring harness, major MGU-H components and other minor ERS components.

[Wazari]

Also when questioned as to why Honda hasn't caught up despite rule stability usually favouring those who are behind, they suggest that their rivals have developed a new revolutionary technology that has kept them ahead, and that they think they know (but aren't certain) what that is.

Someone had to highlight this bit ... TJI etc or something else ? Guess there's no way to know, but the "aren't certain" bit sort of hints they're not talking about TJI (at least to my interpretation). Odd, if accurately translated.

Combustion chamber design (educated guess) and fuel/oil consumption processes including intake design/system.

This is where HRD should make big headway this season and has been the primary focus for increased power.

[techman]

Helmut Marko:
"Honda is very active and has already found something. Maybe they manage to be on the level of Renault with the second engine. Honda had to compromise on the McLaren chassis specification. They could not develop freely and were pretty limited. Alonso has done everything to make the engine look bad. "

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

The truth is coming out. mclaren and alonso did everthing to get rid of honda from beginining. its no suprise, honda found nothing wrong with the spa engine , when alonso intentionally parked it. all the continuous bashing from mclaren towards honda was to get rid of them and get another manufacturer. no wonder sauber deal got broke when they realise they will have a problem getting a mclaren gearbox when actually this partnership is a divorce. honda had to comprise due to mclaren chassis setup demands and good example is brazil, when mclaren ran more downforce in qualy compared to their friday practice session, to give them more cornering speed and less straight line speed when in fact in friday practice, they ran a low downforce configuration and had good straight line speed.its brazil most top teams run low donwforce but not mclaren.

[Wazari]

Thank you Talisman!

I really don't understand, when they have a lot less manpower and budget compared to Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe even Renault, why they don't hire staff or increase the Budget. I know that's not the silver bullet, but it can not hurt.

Because it's called a budget. The F1 PU program has a certain value to HRD. The higher-ups determine what that value is and then spend accordingly. Obviously it's worth more to Mercedes (almost double). It's not a win at all cost philosophy although that's what many things may want or think.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Also when questioned as to why Honda hasn't caught up despite rule stability usually favouring those who are behind, they suggest that their rivals have developed a new revolutionary technology that has kept them ahead, and that they think they know (but aren't certain) what that is.

Someone had to highlight this bit ... TJI etc or something else ? Guess there's no way to know, but the "aren't certain" bit sort of hints they're not talking about TJI (at least to my interpretation). Odd, if accurately translated.

Combustion chamber design (educated guess) and fuel/oil consumption processes including intake design/system.

This is where HRD should make big headway this season and has been the primary focus for increased power.

Wazari, any chance the MGUH bits were actually developed by Integral Powertrains for McL/Honda ?
Are you aware of any IP-McL-Honda partnership at all ?