General Honda F1 Topic

[HPD]

I do not know what the need to hit Honda with every interview that Mclaren does, especially Zak.
Honda already publicly acknowledged its own mistakes. They lowered their heads and they went to work in silence. We have been without official Honda news for 3 months.

Meanwhile we have every day a new news of Zak hitting Honda. Why?. To say that @Techman has a hatred for Mclaren is like saying that @Zak has hatred for Honda.

We'll see who does the best job in 2018.
A Honda that ducked its head and recognized its mistakes. Or an Mclaren who promises things every day and speaks ill of his former partner.

[Talisman]

McLaren do appear to be doing two things, one is blame Honda for every ill in the world and the other is to bombard the press with material. Autosport and the other sites seem to have more McLaren related material than all the other teams combined. What are they up to?

[godlameroso]

Zak Brown owns Motorsport/Autosport network, not surprising.

[roon]

We'll see who does the best job in 2018.
A Honda that ducked its head and recognized its mistakes. Or an Mclaren who promises things every day and speaks ill of his former partner.

I suspect/hope we'll see a couple of soft-drinks teams singing Honda's praises in the coming years.

Wazari rumored that Honda's approach was about experimentation and not winning, fwiw. To me, this is not representative of their public apologetic stances.

[techman]

Wazari rumored that Honda's approach was about experimentation and not winning

can u quote where he said this. there is no engine manufacturer who come into the sports of not wining. everyone comes in with the intention of wining. this is mclaren quote of blaming honda saying mclaren are in it to win where as honda are not. i heard this from mclaren. but not wazari. dont make things up.and yes which manufacturer does not experiment , everyone does experiment just to get more power.

[roon]

can u quote where he said this.

Thank you Talisman!

I really don't understand, when they have a lot less manpower and budget compared to Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe even Renault, why they don't hire staff or increase the Budget. I know that's not the silver bullet, but it can not hurt.

Because it's called a budget. The F1 PU program has a certain value to HRD. The higher-ups determine what that value is and then spend accordingly. Obviously it's worth more to Mercedes (almost double). It's not a win at all cost philosophy although that's what many things may want or think.

[Manoah2u]

Wazari rumored that Honda's approach was about experimentation and not winning

can u quote where he said this. there is no engine manufacturer who come into the sports of not wining. everyone comes in with the intention of wining.

LOL!

I can name 3 manufacturers from the top of my head that entered F1 without the absolute intent of winning.

Hart. Ilmor. Yamaha.

a win would be great, but either had or built engines with the intent of participating and competing in F1, that does not equal the intent of winning. the budget for winning for many (engine) manufacturers is, and always has been, too big, hence bigger than they can handle. Instead, they provided decent and competitive engines for the 'smaller' teams that also had a much lesser budget than the giants, and obviously, needed engines, but didn't have the budget for buying 'big manufacturer' engines like Ferrari, Ford (Cosworth), Renault, perhaps even Judd.

Also, it doesn't mean these manufacturers can't 'grow' into winning-capable material. But that doesn't mean they enter F1 'just to win'.

There have been teams with that intent - Obviously Toyota is one to name, but how much they thrown at it, didn't bring the results they wanted and so they pulled the plug in the end. They didn't even keep making engines, they abandoned the project alltogether.

Talking about Cosworth, one of the only manufacturers apart from Honda entering/re-entering F1 'recently', didn't really have a impressive result either. Question is, were they ever intending to make engines 'for the win' ?
Perhaps the pairing with Williams brough some high hopes before - who knows. But the fact is, when they entered in 2010 at the end of the V8 era, they supplied a non-competitive Williams team, brand new teams Lotus, HRT and Virgin (of which one turned Caterham-Renault and the other Marussia-Ferrari and then Manor).

The engine could be concidered unsuccessfull (even though it was more reliable than the Honda on it's inception iirc) and i think nobody at cosworth at the time had the idea that they built that V8 to 'win'.

also:

this is mclaren quote of blaming honda saying mclaren are in it to win where as honda are not.

the same cr*p over and over again. just give it a rest. it's really sad and annoying by now.

i heard this from mclaren. but not wazari. dont make things up.

WOW hypocritical, you're making things up about Mclaren blaming Honda. are you even for real?

[techman]

The docu was a one sided honda bash, no wonder only mclaren made a big say about it in twitter. honda twitter never even mentioned it. keep blaming honda but this year redbull will show how to build a proper chassis for mclaren boasting team.

as for honda entering the sport not to wins is hard to believe .its hard to believe any manufacturer entering the sport just to make up numbers. obviously there is a budget for any engine manufacturer for a f1 season big or small but that does not mean they dont want to win. its a fact that mclaren openly said they are in to win and honda not. do you believe honda said they don't want to win. yeah right. its a low blow honda bashing by mclaren.

[NathanOlder]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

[Brenton]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

The returns on research for these PUs development seem to keep continuing at a similar pace for all manufacturers, instead of reaching significantly diminishing improvements. Each year from 2014 they all keep improving a lot. If the returns were diminishing much, I could see Honda come close enough to catching up for Red Bull Honda to win the WDC or WCC in 2019 or 2020. But it looks like it would be too much to catch the PU leaders.

So McLaren could have stars align... Highly unlikely but more likely than Honda imo. They have the resources and PU to make a championship run in a year or two.

[McHonda]

I don't think either will win in these regs unless a ceiling is hit soon on the PU or Mercedes completely mess their car up which seems unlikely. If those consumption figures were genuine then Merc have got such scope to not have to build the best car and still be competitive and I just can't see them struggling with the tyres like last year at any point until at least the new regs come in.

So for 2020 - it depends on what the rules are on budget cap/engine and who Honda partner for me. If it's similar engine regs and no budget cap and they partner Red Bull then you've got to fancy Honda as Red Bull has got the recent form and a driver line up that could still be there.

If it's Williams with a budget cap and no mgu-h to put off any new manufacturers then I'd go McLaren to pull in a new partner and get their first with Norris.

Ideally for me though they get back together with a budget cap and no mgu-h post 2020 and win together again.

[RonDennis]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

Both don't stand a chance. I'm still amazed how people could even say a thing like that after three years of failing and complete Mercedes domination. How about seeing some actual progress from Honda before talking about championships. Keep underestimating Mercedes, because it would all change in 2017 right? It's delusional. Earlier this month Verstappen already said that the others wouldn't see them if they were running Mercedes power, it exactly shows their arrogance. Let's see how they will perform with these new suspension rules. If Honda was serious about F1 they should have hired staff from the other teams, like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Honda has a history of failing and those comments about improving in the second half of the season already seem like a story that we've been hearing for the last couple of years.

[Squid]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

Both don't stand a chance. I'm still amazed how people could even say a thing like that after three years of failing and complete Mercedes domination. How about seeing some actual progress from Honda before talking about championships. Keep underestimating Mercedes, because it would all change in 2017 right? It's delusional. Earlier this month Verstappen already said that the others wouldn't see them if they were running Mercedes power, it exactly shows their arrogance. Let's see how they will perform with these new suspension rules. If Honda was serious about F1 they should have hired staff from the other teams, like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Honda has a history of failing and those comments about improving in the second half of the season already seem like a story that we've been hearing for the last couple of years.

It's already been confirmed for a very long time that Honda has actually been hiring staff from other teams. Can we please stop with this argument?

[RonDennis]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

Both don't stand a chance. I'm still amazed how people could even say a thing like that after three years of failing and complete Mercedes domination. How about seeing some actual progress from Honda before talking about championships. Keep underestimating Mercedes, because it would all change in 2017 right? It's delusional. Earlier this month Verstappen already said that the others wouldn't see them if they were running Mercedes power, it exactly shows their arrogance. Let's see how they will perform with these new suspension rules. If Honda was serious about F1 they should have hired staff from the other teams, like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Honda has a history of failing and those comments about improving in the second half of the season already seem like a story that we've been hearing for the last couple of years.

It's already been confirmed for a very long time that Honda has actually been hiring staff from other teams. Can we please stop with this argument?

Actually no, because they haven't. Some consultancy isn't even comparable. Secondly, they even declined help from Mercedes.

[techman]

Actually no, because they haven't. Some consultancy isn't even comparable. Secondly, they even declined help from Mercedes.

Hasegawa has said they are getting outside help. I have seen other nationalities working alongside their japanese engineers. If you watch the amazon documentary you would see other foreign engineers with honda shirts on working. so they are serious and are hiring outside people for this project.