HALO Approved for 2018

[AngusF1]

If you look carefully at the simulation video posted on the previous page, you can notice two things:

1. On the approach to Eau Rouge, there's a point where the whole corner is obscured by the "Halo".

2. At the bottom of the corner, there's a point where the whole section from apex to exit of the corner is obscured by the "Halo".

While these moments only last for a few tenths of a second, they could potentially stop a driver seeing something useful which would allow him to drive or react differently if he could see it, especially during tight racing at the start or if a car up ahead has a crash.


However... the simulation might not have the correct geometry for the "Halo".

[Jolle]

If you look carefully at the simulation video posted on the previous page, you can notice two things:

1. On the approach to Eau Rouge, there's a point where the whole corner is obscured by the "Halo".

2. At the bottom of the corner, there's a point where the whole section from apex to exit of the corner is obscured by the "Halo".

While these moments only last for a few tenths of a second, they could potentially stop a driver seeing something useful which would allow him to drive or react differently if he could see it, especially during tight racing at the start or if a car up ahead has a crash.


However... the simulation might not have the correct geometry for the "Halo".

Ever been in a race car? first of all, you won't see the middle beam because of your stereo vision, something you can't simulate on a flat screen. Second, drivers use a sun strip and can't see anything above the horizon. They don't even see the halo from the car. Third, when you're racing you go from apex to apex, thats why flags are so important. When you come from la source, you'r only reference will be the apex in the valley and the turning in point before that (and braking point if you have to brake). Even without a halo there could be monkey walking across the track in a pink track suit and drivers won't notice it.

[Morteza]

McLaren and Mercedes solution of putting the monitors on the car with the halo

[johnny comelately]

Mark Webber's comments:

Lewis Hamilton even went as far as suggesting it was the 'worst' modification that there had been in the history of F1.

Webber, who has just been announced as an F1 expert for Channel 4's new F1 coverage, says he fully understands both arguments about the Halo.

However, he says people must give it more time for the aesthetics to be honed.

"It's really 50/50, isn't it? And I'm not surprised," he said, when asked by Motorsport.com for his views during a press launch for C4's new F1 coverage.

"We have just gone through a really tough run of bad accidents... a lot of tragic stories here. So we can't sit on our hands and say we shouldn't learn from any of these scenarios.
"With the Halo, it was an extremely open first attempt at trying to protect a lot of the scenarios we saw.

"Would it protect Felipe's [Massa] issue? There might still be a window for something like that to happen. Is it the entrant step to finally be fully closed? Could well be. But I think you're always going to be divided on it. "
Safety wins

Webber, who was a pallbearer at Justin Wilson's funeral, says that safety has to be the over-riding winner in the debate, even if other issues need resolving in the short term.

"I'm a purist," he said. "If you look at the motorbike guys, they can't believe what we're doing. But in the end it's got to be so safe.

"And that's always again the balancing act, isn't it? It's tricky - I can't give you an answer, mate.

"I carried Justin Wilson's coffin, I don't want that to happen again but... you take that [Halo] system to Eau Rouge as well, the viewing, we know with the sportscar it's very tricky to see in certain corners and profiles.

"So I think it's an evolving situation. It's very emotional, a hot topic. But I think some sense will come with the aesthetics and... I believe it's a halfway step but it's a hard balance."

[jjn9128]

Mark Webber's comments:

Lewis Hamilton even went as far as suggesting it was the 'worst' modification that there had been in the history of F1.

Webber, who has just been announced as an F1 expert for Channel 4's new F1 coverage, says he fully understands both arguments about the Halo.

However, he says people must give it more time for the aesthetics to be honed.

"It's really 50/50, isn't it? And I'm not surprised," he said, when asked by Motorsport.com for his views during a press launch for C4's new F1 coverage.

"We have just gone through a really tough run of bad accidents... a lot of tragic stories here. So we can't sit on our hands and say we shouldn't learn from any of these scenarios.
"With the Halo, it was an extremely open first attempt at trying to protect a lot of the scenarios we saw.

"Would it protect Felipe's [Massa] issue? There might still be a window for something like that to happen. Is it the entrant step to finally be fully closed? Could well be. But I think you're always going to be divided on it. "
Safety wins

Webber, who was a pallbearer at Justin Wilson's funeral, says that safety has to be the over-riding winner in the debate, even if other issues need resolving in the short term.

"I'm a purist," he said. "If you look at the motorbike guys, they can't believe what we're doing. But in the end it's got to be so safe.

"And that's always again the balancing act, isn't it? It's tricky - I can't give you an answer, mate.

"I carried Justin Wilson's coffin, I don't want that to happen again but... you take that [Halo] system to Eau Rouge as well, the viewing, we know with the sportscar it's very tricky to see in certain corners and profiles.

"So I think it's an evolving situation. It's very emotional, a hot topic. But I think some sense will come with the aesthetics and... I believe it's a halfway step but it's a hard balance."

Finally some common sense from a TV pundit. With Brundle calling anyone with a differing opinion "snowflakes", it's refreshing to see. Especially from someone as straight talking as Webber.

[adrianjordan]

Can't find the link now, but read an interview where Jean Todt basically said that if they can find a more aesthetically pleasing solution that is proven to be as, or more, effective then it could be implemented.

[Manoah2u]

i just don't get why people still discuss it. it's here, it's implemented, whatever. deal with it. the reason has been given, done.

if your/my boss decides, from tomorrow on, you are going to wear a helmet and goggles because there have been freak accidents where a brick fell on somebody's head, does it also get milked or poked endlessly despite it being a dead horse? it's that simple, really.

mathematically, chances are as good as non-existant that whilst on a construction site, a brick or other object can fall on your head. in reality, it happens more than once. not all the time, but it happens plenty enough. plenty enough times bricks fell inches short. plenty times they hit. and everytime, if somebody HAD protection, it would have resulted either in no injury or minimal injury, but at the very least, not life-threatening. do we also get people complaining 'the worker should decide it for themselves'. 'its aesthetically unpleasing'. 'the cap and goggles hinder sight and maneuvrability'. 'real men dont wear it'. 'if you can't handle the danger, you shouldnt be a construction worker'.? you just grab the cap/helmet, put on the goggles, and go do your thing. end of story. it saves your and other peoples lives form own or other peoples mistakes. no matter how relatively small the chances.
so honestly, why still the endless moaning. deal with it.

and as todt said. if something better or more advanced comes along, we'll take it. done.

if the halo was really an issue for driving an f1 car, we would have had plenty concerns, problems and issues with various testing during the 2017 season, and during post-season testing.
we would also have had concern during the pre-season testing.

we have had none, no driver at any point ever said 'i can't drive the car with the halo'. really, that's all that's to be concidered.

next week, first race of 2018. finally. may the moaning stop.

[AJI]

i just don't get why people still discuss it. it's here, it's implemented, whatever. deal with it. the reason has been given, done.

The argument has three points:
- safety (which I don't think anyone disagrees on)
- tradition (which is arguable either way)
- aesthetics (which is, and always will be, a hot topic for humankind)
So, it won't be 'done' until all three topics are finalised, and whether you like it or not, the aesthetic argument shapes the narrative because that's the most contentious. If the design looked good we wouldn't even be having this conversation...

The Halo, in its current form, is the most controversial topic in F1 right now. Just saying 'there's nothing to see here, move on' isn't going to stop the discussion until the underlying issues are resolved.

[strad]

Nobody wants to see a friend, or anyone die, but there has to be a line.
A very high percentage of drivers get into the sport to test their bravery and face danger, not to just show off their skill at driving..Just so you know I don't care a whit if the run or don't run the HALO or a canopy, but the more danger you eliminate the more you emasculate the sport.
.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss.
.
"as for the accidents and tragedy—the circus goes on. There's no room for tears."
Cevert
.
You know the risks, you accept them. If a man can't look at danger and still go on, man has stopped living. If the worst ever happens – then it means simply that I've been asked to pay the bill for the happiness of my life – without a moment's regret." Graham Hill.
.

[NathanOlder]

If you look carefully at the simulation video posted on the previous page, you can notice two things:

1. On the approach to Eau Rouge, there's a point where the whole corner is obscured by the "Halo".

2. At the bottom of the corner, there's a point where the whole section from apex to exit of the corner is obscured by the "Halo".

While these moments only last for a few tenths of a second, they could potentially stop a driver seeing something useful which would allow him to drive or react differently if he could see it, especially during tight racing at the start or if a car up ahead has a crash.


However... the simulation might not have the correct geometry for the "Halo".

Ever been in a race car? first of all, you won't see the middle beam because of your stereo vision, something you can't simulate on a flat screen. Second, drivers use a sun strip and can't see anything above the horizon. They don't even see the halo from the car. Third, when you're racing you go from apex to apex, thats why flags are so important. When you come from la source, you'r only reference will be the apex in the valley and the turning in point before that (and braking point if you have to brake). Even without a halo there could be monkey walking across the track in a pink track suit and drivers won't notice it.

I know what your saying about not seeing something in plain sight (monkey in a tracksuit) but......... you cant say Seb didnt notice the seagulls in Montreal. These driver notice a lot more than you think. Also just thinking about having a sun strip so they cant see above the horizon, i can't begin to imagine how they see the start lights or the pit box lights. Oh yeah, they look up (tip their head slightly) so its certainly possible the Halo could interfere withthe view up Eau Rouge. Im not saying it will. I just can't see how you can rule out all these possibilities with some excuse.

[johnny comelately]

I think it was also Webber who said that in three years time we will look back at this halo and be embarrassed by it.
Anyway, I just reckon the canopy is better.

[Jolle]

If you look carefully at the simulation video posted on the previous page, you can notice two things:

1. On the approach to Eau Rouge, there's a point where the whole corner is obscured by the "Halo".

2. At the bottom of the corner, there's a point where the whole section from apex to exit of the corner is obscured by the "Halo".

While these moments only last for a few tenths of a second, they could potentially stop a driver seeing something useful which would allow him to drive or react differently if he could see it, especially during tight racing at the start or if a car up ahead has a crash.


However... the simulation might not have the correct geometry for the "Halo".

Ever been in a race car? first of all, you won't see the middle beam because of your stereo vision, something you can't simulate on a flat screen. Second, drivers use a sun strip and can't see anything above the horizon. They don't even see the halo from the car. Third, when you're racing you go from apex to apex, thats why flags are so important. When you come from la source, you'r only reference will be the apex in the valley and the turning in point before that (and braking point if you have to brake). Even without a halo there could be monkey walking across the track in a pink track suit and drivers won't notice it.

I know what your saying about not seeing something in plain sight (monkey in a tracksuit) but......... you cant say Seb didnt notice the seagulls in Montreal. These driver notice a lot more than you think. Also just thinking about having a sun strip so they cant see above the horizon, i can't begin to imagine how they see the start lights or the pit box lights. Oh yeah, they look up (tip their head slightly) so its certainly possible the Halo could interfere withthe view up Eau Rouge. Im not saying it will. I just can't see how you can rule out all these possibilities with some excuse.

I took that corner a couple of hundred times in a sports car with a sun strip, no problems (the dirty windscreen after a few laps was actually a bigger problem) The line of sight is far less then a halo (looks like your visibility is around 30 degrees, far less then any hill on the calendar).
And weren’t those seagulls on the racing line? Vettel is one of the only drivers who goes to the next apex with his view before he did the corner.

[NathanOlder]

Even without a halo there could be monkey walking across the track in a pink track suit and drivers won't notice it.

Without being petty,

Last time i checked, a monkey walking across the track would have to walk on the racing line

[J.A.W.]

& still..'the elephant in the room' - maintains that a halo caused 'blindspot' - is in itself.. a crash causation factor..

[adrianjordan]

i just don't get why people still discuss it. it's here, it's implemented, whatever. deal with it. the reason has been given, done.

if your/my boss decides, from tomorrow on, you are going to wear a helmet and goggles because there have been freak accidents where a brick fell on somebody's head, does it also get milked or poked endlessly despite it being a dead horse? it's that simple, really.

mathematically, chances are as good as non-existant that whilst on a construction site, a brick or other object can fall on your head. in reality, it happens more than once. not all the time, but it happens plenty enough. plenty enough times bricks fell inches short. plenty times they hit. and everytime, if somebody HAD protection, it would have resulted either in no injury or minimal injury, but at the very least, not life-threatening. do we also get people complaining 'the worker should decide it for themselves'. 'its aesthetically unpleasing'. 'the cap and goggles hinder sight and maneuvrability'. 'real men dont wear it'. 'if you can't handle the danger, you shouldnt be a construction worker'.? you just grab the cap/helmet, put on the goggles, and go do your thing. end of story. it saves your and other peoples lives form own or other peoples mistakes. no matter how relatively small the chances.
so honestly, why still the endless moaning. deal with it.

and as todt said. if something better or more advanced comes along, we'll take it. done.

if the halo was really an issue for driving an f1 car, we would have had plenty concerns, problems and issues with various testing during the 2017 season, and during post-season testing.
we would also have had concern during the pre-season testing.

we have had none, no driver at any point ever said 'i can't drive the car with the halo'. really, that's all that's to be concidered.

next week, first race of 2018. finally. may the moaning stop.

It's called democracy and free speach. Just because it's here, doesn't mean we stop discussing it. If you don't like the conversation, don't come into the thread.