Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
Jet ignition with prechamber fuel injection was in the previously translated article title.
On the honda flame ignition it looks like they have a valve mechanism in the centre for ingress because with multiple egresses the small hole size inhibits filling the chamber, especially at high rpm. the problem with that even though it creates a relatively quick combustion time is that the small holes restrict the chamber penetration, two with bigger holes would be far better.godlameroso wrote: ↑21 Mar 2018, 20:04If I may.johnny comelately wrote: ↑21 Mar 2018, 08:43Regarding "muramasa"'s brilliant post:
"Fuel pump is positioned on cylinder head cover, same as RA616H. But the fuel line, which was placed along the ignition coils for RA616H, cannot be seen at the same location with RA617H. Therefore RA617H is not top injection.
RA615H: side injection on inlet port side.
RA616H: top injection
RA617H: The author is speculating that it's side injection on exhaust port side (can be seen in pics anyways)
THROUGH TO
"We've trialed dozens of different configurations for the sub chamber, and much more than that for the injector. If you consider increasing combustion efficiency and thermal efficiency under the current reg, pre-chamber is the path you must take. Current regulation will continue until 2020. We are going to continue development of increasing combustion speed, which includes increasing compression ratio, beyond 2018."
EXHAUST SIDE injection is very effective at solving " increasing air homogeneity" in a non-traditional approach we have had great success with.
And not being of the Mahle variety with separation from the pre-combustion chamber giving far more latitude with ignition point mixture. With previous photos from "Wazari" showing a separate ingress (valve controlled?) to the multi egresses for the flames. Whilst this is very good, it is seriously constrained by the FIA rule saying only one.
Exhaust side injectors main benefit could be fine control of fuel temperature via exhaust heat. Air homogeneity would be better translated as air dilution. Extremely interesting that they don't use a Mahle style pre-chamber, however they do use a shrouded spark plug(can't stop laughing at what mudflap called it) and the hole size and placement is critical for it to function. I guess "team Wazari" design has a valve like activated method to stratify the mixture in their flame ignition system, which comes close to, but not quite as efficient as if they had more than 1 injector, or one specifically for their flame ignition system and another for the main chamber.
i am an idealist, yes it would be best or better but FIA forbid it, like most things.
Mudflap wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 01:26If you really need damping, then yes it would work but I don't think it can double as a crank damper.
It is also possible to have the damper on the back of the motor too.
A damper is most efficient where the amplitude of vibration is highest (also known as an anti node). On a conventional engine with a high inertia flywheel the anti node is away from the flywheel on the nose of the crank hence the damper always sits at the front. In F1 camshafts the highest displacement is always at the rear of the cam so the dampers have invariably sat at the end.
In current F1 engines the effective inertia at the crank nose is quite high due to the K gearing, while the flywheel doesn't really exist so my hunch (well a bit more than that - I know that the cossy v8 had a rear damper - and 13 others!) is that crank dampers would be better placed at the rear of the engine.
I think extra valves in the cylinder are against the rules. And variable compression ratio is also against the rules.johnny comelately wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 03:00
On the honda flame ignition it looks like they have a valve mechanism in the centre for ingress because with multiple egresses the small hole size inhibits filling the chamber, especially at high rpm. the problem with that even though it creates a relatively quick combustion time is that the small holes restrict the chamber penetration, two with bigger holes would be far better.
i should have said air fuel homogeneity
Seems so. Unless someone tries to come along and say that it doesn't specify that there can't be more.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 17:21I think extra valves in the cylinder are against the rules. And variable compression ratio is also against the rules.johnny comelately wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 03:00
On the honda flame ignition it looks like they have a valve mechanism in the centre for ingress because with multiple egresses the small hole size inhibits filling the chamber, especially at high rpm. the problem with that even though it creates a relatively quick combustion time is that the small holes restrict the chamber penetration, two with bigger holes would be far better.
i should have said air fuel homogeneity
5.1.8 Engines must have two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder.
Care to present some pictures of this Honda mini-chamber?johnny comelately wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 23:31Whoa, back the truck up.
With pre-combustion chambers (of the non-mahle type, where the injector is integral) filling of the mini chamber happens by the main chamber mix getting pushed back up the barrels (by compression) into where the spark is.
The Honda design looks like the diameter for that to happen effectively is way too small (aprox 1+mm) because it is a multi hole design rather than one.
Therefore there needs to be a method to quickly fill the mini chamber and by the drawing in the centre there is what looks like a valve mechanism, but i could be wrong because something like a reed valve could not survive there, but maybe they have developed something novel.
I cannot see anyone ever interpreting that that is an extra valve because it is all internal, where the FIA rules are purely pertaining to the gas exchange. Such arguments are moot.
No I don't.hurril wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 23:40Care to present some pictures of this Honda mini-chamber?johnny comelately wrote: ↑22 Mar 2018, 23:31Whoa, back the truck up.
With pre-combustion chambers (of the non-mahle type, where the injector is integral) filling of the mini chamber happens by the main chamber mix getting pushed back up the barrels (by compression) into where the spark is.
The Honda design looks like the diameter for that to happen effectively is way too small (aprox 1+mm) because it is a multi hole design rather than one.
Therefore there needs to be a method to quickly fill the mini chamber and by the drawing in the centre there is what looks like a valve mechanism, but i could be wrong because something like a reed valve could not survive there, but maybe they have developed something novel.
I cannot see anyone ever interpreting that that is an extra valve because it is all internal, where the FIA rules are purely pertaining to the gas exchange. Such arguments are moot.
