Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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eleventenths
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Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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Vettel didn't win in Australia by luck or some "Computer Glitch". He won because Mercedes were incompetent. There was only one way Vettel was going to win that race, and it zoomed into focus as Vettel led the race. Between Brackley and Albert Park, Mercedes had over 20 staff dedicated to race strategy. It is very simple optimization problem in which Lewis had to maintain a certain speed to ensure he would be ahead of Vettel in the event a saftey car was called. Track and race specific values should have been input into an algorithm with a safety factor added based on the relative distance between the drivers - it is not rocket science. This nonsense about a computer glitch is idiotic because a computer cannot give the wrong answer unless incorrect values were input or the algorithm was wrong. So someone at Mercedes clearly f**cked up and it was NOT the computer's fault!

J.A.W.
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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"Computer sez 'No'!" - L.o.l...
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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Shrieker
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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eleventenths wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 02:51
Vettel didn't win in Australia by luck or some "Computer Glitch". He won because Mercedes were incompetent. There was only one way Vettel was going to win that race, and it zoomed into focus as Vettel led the race. Between Brackley and Albert Park, Mercedes had over 20 staff dedicated to race strategy. It is very simple optimization problem in which Lewis had to maintain a certain speed to ensure he would be ahead of Vettel in the event a saftey car was called. Track and race specific values should have been input into an algorithm with a safety factor added based on the relative distance between the drivers - it is not rocket science. This nonsense about a computer glitch is idiotic because a computer cannot give the wrong answer unless incorrect values were input or the algorithm was wrong. So someone at Mercedes clearly f**cked up and it was NOT the computer's fault!
Well said. It's common to see half pit stop times under VSC. If it costs 24 seconds for a pit stop, odds are it will cost around 12 seconds under the VSC. Add a safety margin and you ll see your driver remain ahead. It's no more complicated than elementary school maths. Of course for us simpletons, hindsight is 20/20. But the team is getting millions upon millions spent on them, and this level of incompetence at such a level is unacceptable imho.
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graham.reeds
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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And it had nothing to do with Vettel lucking in to the VSC and accelerating after the first safety car line into the pits to make the gap to come out into the lead?

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ian_s
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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graham.reeds wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 07:36
And it had nothing to do with Vettel lucking in to the VSC and accelerating after the first safety car line into the pits to make the gap to come out into the lead?
it had everything to do with that, Mercedes screwed up by not taking it into account. hamilton should have been a few seconds closer to Vettel to mitigate a VSC

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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It is obvious to most people that it was just an error of the strategy department at Mercedes. The reason they blamed a software is simple: Now that the mistake is made there's no benefit in pointing fingers, so rather than create an internal conflict that would do them more harm than good, they're just gonna learn from it and move on, since they're still clear favorites to win both championships.

Part of the reason for Mercedes' success is that their management is well beyond the point where they would lose focus due to such details.

wesley123
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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Well, teams rely on software to properly plan out the strategy. So if a strategy would go wrong because the computer returned a incorrect value, it is reasonable for them to say it is a software glitch, which is entirely plausible.
I don't think anyone involved in the strategic department 'f-ed up', and they have little control over software bugs or glitches.

On the other hand, to partially support the 'f-ed up' part, this software is written by other human beings, who have made a coding error. But if we are going to look that way then no one could ever complain about a tool they use, considering this is all built involving humans. So by that logic the next time your car won't start because the battery is dead you can't really blame the car, considering how this car was designed and developed by humans. And to be realistic humans frequently have very little control over situations, considering how they require tools they know nothing about.

So yeah, they are entirely correct in saying that it was a software glitch, as they used software that the race engineers did not develop, and thus have little control over these bugs or glitches, nor have they got the ability to constantly question the software's returned values as that would take up way too much time.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

bonjon1979
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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I think that they failed to take into account that once you cross the safety car line you can go as quick as you like to the pits. Likewise, when you leave the pits you don’t have to obey vsc rules until safety car line. The 2 seconds needed were made up there. Human error.

Nonserviam85
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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Seriously this was the biggest bs they could have come up with. Anyone working with high-end software knows that the software is as good as the human input going into it and the analysis out of it.

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Shakeman
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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Is it easier to say over the radio 'it was a computer glitch' or ' the engineer who coded the telemetry software did not take a particular edge case into consideration and we underestimated the amount of lead you needed.'

In previous seasons Merc have produced videos by the strategy team showing the reasons for and thinking behind trackside strategy calls. It'll be interesting to see if they do one for this race and what they say.

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Shrieker
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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bonjon1979 wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 10:01
I think that they failed to take into account that once you cross the safety car line you can go as quick as you like to the pits. Likewise, when you leave the pits you don’t have to obey vsc rules until safety car line. The 2 seconds needed were made up there. Human error.
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What if there's a crash between the safety car line and the pits ? That means you can still go at full speed without fear of reprisal. That's a clear oversight from the rule maker that should be addressed, and the solution is quite straightforward: You maintain your on track speed in that section.
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eleventenths
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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DiogoBrand wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 08:29
It is obvious to most people that it was just an error of the strategy department at Mercedes. The reason they blamed a software is simple: Now that the mistake is made there's no benefit in pointing fingers, so rather than create an internal conflict that would do them more harm than good, they're just gonna learn from it and move on, since they're still clear favorites to win both championships.

Part of the reason for Mercedes' success is that their management is well beyond the point where they would lose focus due to such details.
Dead On! =D>

AJI
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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I know that every time I make a mistake in judgment that the computer didn't prevent me from making it's clearly the fault of the computer. Happens all the time...

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Big Tea
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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GIGO. The problem with computers is they do what you tell them to, not what you intended them to do.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Is it More Palatable to Blame Computers When Things go Wrong?

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Shrieker wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 12:01
bonjon1979 wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 10:01
I think that they failed to take into account that once you cross the safety car line you can go as quick as you like to the pits. Likewise, when you leave the pits you don’t have to obey vsc rules until safety car line. The 2 seconds needed were made up there. Human error.
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What if there's a crash between the safety car line and the pits ? That means you can still go at full speed without fear of reprisal. That's a clear oversight from the rule maker that should be addressed, and the solution is quite straightforward: You maintain your on track speed in that section.
Once you cross the safety car line you're already on pit entry. Unless an accident happened inside the pitlane there's no danger at all in going fast into the pit entry.