2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 27-29

[basti313]

Thought Hamilton had another poor race, seems he lost all his energy since Australia. I think his engineer is getting a bit tired of it too.

Hamilton's race performance is exaggerated to an extent, because he was in a position to challenge Vettel (behind by 2.5 to 4s up to the point he made a mistake and then later ruined his tires).

???
He was not in the position to attack because of many small errors. Ham was not good at the start nor at the restart (cold tires as also the second lap was not too good?). Then two errors in lap 12 and 15 brought him 4.5sec gap. Whenever he was without errors he closed the gap by up to 0.3sec per lap on Vettel, who was very constant in his lap times. Ham had the car to win the race without any hep of a SC, but without it he would have been so poor to even loose it to Bottas. I am really surprised by this low performance, I would not have expected it. But clear as cake: If you even win a race with a performance like this you win the WDC in the end.

At that point, there were no indications on how the soft tires would be. The only indications were that Kimi was struggling, but the thinking behind Mercedes strategy was probably that their car would behave better on them.

Ham was clearly faster on 10 laps older Softs then Vettel. So there was the old rule, the harder the tire the better for Merc.

Ferrari at some point decided to pit as well at the point when Hamilton's lap time started to match Vettels on the old SS. They probably felt that staying out longer might not yield much advantage. Obviously, they were wrong and Vettel being 12 seconds behind Bottas (who hadn't stopped yet) gave Mercedes the ace on strategy in case of a safety car.

Ham was 0.3 to 0.4 sec faster from lap 27 to 29. All laptimes very constant. Before that strong fluctuations due to backmarkers. With 8sec in the pocket I still can not see any indication why they pitted Vettel in the lap times.

[George-Jung]

Clearly another typical dive bomb action from Ricciardo, that this time went wrong..

Interesting to see how far people go to blame everything on Verstappen.

Not as interesting as seeing how far people is goig to defend Verstappen even after ruining his whole team GP

Yours, or this one, are pretty good examples

Your allowed to move while defending (but not braking) as much as you like as there is no rule. Verstappen didn't move while braking so he didn't break the rule.

It was crystal clear. Verstappen was closing the door at the inside, so Ricciardo went to the outside, but Max moved to the right to close the ouside gap, then Ricciardo changed direction to go to the inside, and Max changed direction again under braking closing the gap and causing an accident.

It was easy to see even live, but once you look at Ricciardo onboard it is not possible to defend Max by any means

Verstappen was already defending the inside line, Ricciardo just went for a gap that wasn’t there..

Also look at the onboards and the downshifts- no moving under braking.

Of course it is a bad result for the team, cant argue with that- but than the team shouldn’t have pressured Ricciardo by telling him he had to do it all over again- after they already had a few close encounters.

For the team it wouldn’t have mattered who finished ahead of the other.

[Phil]

???
He was not in the position to attack because of many small errors. Ham was not good at the start nor at the restart (cold tires as also the second lap was not too good?). Then two errors in lap 12 and 15 brought him 4.5sec gap. Whenever he was without errors he closed the gap by up to 0.3sec per lap on Vettel, who was very constant in his lap times. Ham had the car to win the race without any hep of a SC, but without it he would have been so poor to even loose it to Bottas. I am really surprised by this low performance, I would not have expected it. But clear as cake: If you even win a race with a performance like this you win the WDC in the end.

Let me clarify: As you said, Hamilton and Vettels performance was pretty similar throughout the first stint, except for the two errors you mentioned that brought the gap up. Even so, Hamilton was trying to close that gap, indicating that he was pushing. The 'strategy' for him was to remain close enough to Vettel to perhaps make an undercut work (at that point in the race, everyone thought that the undercut would at least gain you time), perhaps similarly to what Bottas achieved in China despite being ~3.5s behind Vettel. The small mistakes he made, as you mentioned, made that an impossibility and his last error flat spotted his tire to such an extent, that Mercedes brought him in for the soft tire and committed him to that strategy. Hindsight tells us that the undercut never would have worked anyway, as the soft tire proved slow.

My point is that Bottas didn't have (or show) that pace in the first stint. He was dropping further and further behind both Vettel and Hamilton. At the largest, he was around 6s off Hamilton and a total of over 10s behind Vettel. The only reason Bottas ever got into contention for a possible win, is because the knowledge of seeing that the soft-tire sucked and was slower than the 25 laps old soft tires he was on, enabled him to stay out and bank on that safety car happening. Mercedes had an excellent comparison between the performance of the new softs on Hamiltons car and the old SS on Bottas car. Apart from that differing strategy, I see no indication that Bottas was the quicker driver between himself and Hamilton. He was simply faultless, but that's easy to be when you are not pushing as hard as your team-mate.

[Fulcrum]

Never stop believing. Forza Ferrari!!!
https://postimages.org/

All I have to say about that race is. I dont blame Seb for trying, some of you armchair experts dont really have a clue what f1 is all about. It is about racing, passing, taking risk, not hanging back and not trying. Yes it didnt work, but next time it might. Bring on Barca.

https://postimages.org/

Alain Prost, Keke Rosberg, Niki Lauda, to name a few, suggest there are other ways of winning championships.

[sAx]

It doesnt matter right now, the race is done, what ifs doesnt matter. Now I will have to wait again for that 14 painful days. Even thought Ferrari will be on pole it doesnt matter, because the SC will come and destroy our race like in China and here.

No doubt you feel similarly upset about the VSC impact in Melbourne!

The VSC in Melbourne gave Vettel a shot at the lead but the Merc team gave him the lead on a plate. If you remember they said that their systems gave them the wrong numbers so Hamilton was driving at a wrong delta. Mercedes have only themselves to blame for losing out because if they have calculated the times correctly, Vettel would have re-joined in 2nd.

My point is not related to wrong numbers/deltas....it is about the VSC destroying a race by restricting all other than those entering the pits to a target speed.

[Phil]

My point is not related to wrong numbers/deltas....it is about the VSC destroying a race by restricting all other than those entering the pits to a target speed.

All cars have to adhere to a target speed/sector-delta, even those entering the pits - Melbourne just exaggerated the case that the pit entry isn't exactly part of the track and Vettel used this fully to his advantage. The main advantage during a safety car period (and VSC too) however is that when all cars have to slow down on track and drive to a time delta enforced by the race director (for safety reasons), it makes the the time loss of entering the pits, changing tires and leaving the pits smaller relative to normal conditions.

Example: At normal speed the time needed to do a lap might be 1 minute. A lap including a safety car stop might be 1 minute and 20 seconds. During a safety car phase, the time needed to do a lap under the new delta might be 2 minutes. So a car entering the pits still loses 20 second for the pit (that stays relatively constant because those speeds are lower anyway), but due to everyone else slowing down, it takes them longer to catch up the car driving through the pits.

The only way to avoid that, is if you would add a time delta that a car might have to wait in the pits to equal out the time loss by the cars adhering to a time-delta on track, but it would probably be quite complicated to master (and make it fair) and it would also take away the unpredictability of the effects of a safety car. Not to mention it's a legitimate strategy to drive to a safety-car scenario; i.e. Vettel running in 3rd in Melbourne or pretty much everyone staying out as long as possible in Baku for a possible and predictable safety car period.

[fabian77]

It's such a pity they don't offer Internet, even in business class. Stupid people make you wait until you reach the lounge.

Trying to make yourself sound important, you must suffer small man syndrome. Resorting to insults shows your intelligence.

This post made me chuckle. You sound even more 'small man' and petty with your original post. Lewis already could have won in Melbourne legitimately on pace. And this is only round 4. How do you know it's the only way he can win? When you say meaningless things like that you just sound like a bitter fanatic.

Lewis (by luck mainly) is leading the world standing. BUT Ferrari have the quickest car right now. So? It's shaping up nicely to be a very interesting season. Enjoy it. Support your team and enjoy the sport but stop making petulant sulky statements. Then you accuse others of being small lol

I am not a bitter fanatic , my response was to the stup!d comment that was posted, that is all, and yes it is an interesting season, I was angry Verstappen has screwed Vettel last 2 races (directly and indirectly).

[Vettel165]

What I find funny that this Baku is really a crazy race, looks like it. Yesterday there wasnt a single driver than didnt make mistake, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi all did it. Maybe the only driver on the grid who was clean, was Bottas this race, from 20 drivers. This race is heavier to drive as in Monaco, and the high-tyre pressures didnt help. I really think that things will get back to normal in next races, without to much drama. I see Ferrari dominating the next 3-4 races, you heard it here first.

[digitalrurouni]

Just 2 comments. EPIC race! And those who are saying Verstappen didn't jink under braking a second time need to get their eyes checked.

[Restomaniac]

Oh.. That was unlucky for Vettel then. A bit like oz. 12 seconds is enough to come out ahead even under sc. Do they have to drive to a delta (as in vsc ) round the entire circuit ? Cause the last time i remember, you could drive fast under sc other than the crash site. Maybe Ferrari should have put ultra softs on Vettel s car on his first stop then.. He drove really well today and up until he went wide on the second sc restart he was the driver of the weekend for sure. I wonder whether the muricans are pressuring race control to hit the nascar button whenever there s a chance. Which would obviously be a shame.

Have you actually watched the race?

Yes I have. Apart from a few bits where I went to grab drinks and stuff.

Then I'm very surprised you didn't notice the entire field driving through the pits and didn't notice the commentary stating as such.

[Restomaniac]

Overall a fun race although it was a shame that the Safety Car had such a big influence on the outcome.

Thought Hamilton had another poor race, seems he lost all his energy since Australia. I think his engineer is getting a bit tired of it too. Particularly interesting that he could make no impression on Vettel after the final restart. He had a double-tow and yet pulled out early and didn't even reach Vettel, let alone draw level or overtake. Not sure why Vettel took such a risk trying to overtake Bottas either. Still, it gave Force India a podium and they badly need every piece of luck available.

As for Red Bull, as others have pointed out, Kimi warned Verstappen that double-moves were going to cost him one day and, low and behold, they did. Ricciardo was fine to commit to the inside line as the only way it wouldn't work is if Verstappen decided to not only violate the regs by making a second move but also deliberately cause a double-wipe out. As others have said though, it's a significant line in the sand from Verstappen and I do think others will think twice when trying to overtake him in similar circumstances.

That in itself is the issue. Instead of Max having to follow the rules everyone else will have to alter their driving away from the accepted standard.

[vanburin]

What I find funny that this Baku is really a crazy race, looks like it. Yesterday there wasnt a single driver than didnt make mistake, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi all did it. Maybe the only driver on the grid who was clean, was Bottas this race, from 20 drivers. This race is heavier to drive as in Monaco, and the high-tyre pressures didnt help. I really think that things will get back to normal in next races, without to much drama. I see Ferrari dominating the next 3-4 races, you heard it here first.

You're really going out on a limb here, predicting the car with the best race pace from the last 3 races will continue that streak in the races to come!

I wouldn't mind getting everyone's feedback on this bit of info:

Mercedes driver Hamilton said Vettel drove dangerously by slowing down and speeding up repeatedly.

The Briton said he would be seeking clarification on what was allowed from FIA Formula 1 director Charlie Whiting before the next race in Spain.

"You are not allowed to start and stop, start and stop," said Hamilton.

"You're not allowed to fake the guy behind.

"If there was not that rule, that's what you'd do because eventually you'd catch them sleeping."

Hamilton said the Ferrari driver had also behaved in this manner at a restart after a safety car period during the opening race in Melbourne.

"In Australia he accelerated and braked and I nearly went into the back of him and (in Baku) he did it four times and I need to speak to Charlie, because I don't understand.

"I understand he passed it to the stewards but they didn't do anything. They supposedly said everyone was doing it. But we're the leaders and it cascades down, what the first car does everyone does the same thing.

"That now sets a precedent, and it means everyone who is leading under a safety car can start-stop, start-stop.

Seems a bit of a non issue to me, and a little bit of unnecessary grumbling. The leader of the safety car pack always sets the pace, maybe he's on about the abrupt start/stops, otherwise known as the infamous brake-check? I don't recall at any point where Vettel did anything too uncharacteristically. Ironic considering it was pace setting under the SC that caused the HAM/VET controversy at least year's Baku race!

For clarity, I'm a Hamilton fan. It appears to avoid being labelled as a hater you have to be completely transparent in your fandom

[Sieper]

Haha, yes that is a bit pushing it by Hammy! Perhaps on purpose

[NathanOlder]

Have you actually watched the race?

Yes I have. Apart from a few bits where I went to grab drinks and stuff.

Then I'm very surprised you didn't notice the entire field driving through the pits and didn't notice the commentary stating as such.

Don't you mean, who has time for "drinks and stuff" when a race is on live? ?

[Phil]

I think it's a valid question. During a safety car period, everyone is fighting to retain heat in their tires. Part of the warm up process (similarly to the formation lap) is to brake hard and accelerate (with wheel spin). Obviously, when the safety-car period ends, there starts a period where the race leader dictates the pace. Is he allowed to do the braking and accelerating? Could a warming of the tires (at that point) be mistaken by the driver behind to mean that he is going only to then step on the brakes again? If the driver(s) at that moment is close enough, then you risk that the car behind might crash into you. Same applies to the situation last year when Hamilton slowed down quite a bit through the corner and Vettel was caught out and crashed into the back of him.

Perhaps we are moving too far into a region where there are too many rules and everything is micro-managed, but I do see that there is a point in which braking/accelerating can become dangerous at the restart phase. I also think that things look differently when behind and now Hamilton has had two races (Melbourne and Baku) to reflect on how things come across when you are not the leading car, but the car in second position at the mercy of the car in front and whatever he does to retain an advantage at the restart.

The whole safety car thing is also exaggerated though. In Baku, it's so crucial for the leader to get everything right because of that long straight. On any other more typical race track, a safety car restart is less of an issue to the car in front.