2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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epo
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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Everything is toying for you if it's something else then your own opinion kinda annoying. If have seen the race and times it is crystal clear what Helmut is saying.

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Andres125sx
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George-Jung wrote:
05 May 2018, 04:33
My personal opinion:

Most people over here don’t like this ‘kid’, not because of these ‘minor’ incidents lately, but because of ‘the fact’ that this ‘kid’ has the potential to break all precious records once he is in true equal machinary and a little less hot headed.
He´s on equal machinery with Ricciardo for two seassons, and he´s been beaten fair and square :wink:

Not sure about the reason you assume 90% of people in F1T disagreing with you means people hate Max, but you´re so wrong that it hurts reading this

I love aggressive drivers, but there must be some limit. Blocking your teammate is far from fair racing, and anything any other driver did in the past means nothing about this incident :wink:

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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epo wrote:
05 May 2018, 13:13
Marko admits Verstappen was faster then RIC in Baku, so he should have said to RIC to back off.

http://www.motorprofis.at/motorsport/re ... muth-marko
Your post is clearly very misleading and blatantly incorrect. Marko never said anything of the sort that Verstappen was faster than Ric in Baku. I suggest you read that article again or get a better translator...
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sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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epo wrote:
05 May 2018, 13:13
Marko admits Verstappen was faster then RIC in Baku, so he should have said to RIC to back off.

http://www.motorprofis.at/motorsport/re ... muth-marko
You know that's PR rubbish.

Edax
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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Phil wrote:
05 May 2018, 18:55
epo wrote:
05 May 2018, 13:13
Marko admits Verstappen was faster then RIC in Baku, so he should have said to RIC to back off.

http://www.motorprofis.at/motorsport/re ... muth-marko
Your post is clearly very misleading and blatantly incorrect. Marko never said anything of the sort that Verstappen was faster than Ric in Baku. I suggest you read that article again or get a better translator...
True.. the only thing he said that max was actually faster “at that point”. But he also says that they thought Ric had the race in the bag up to the pit stop.

What is interesting is that he says the lap before RiC’s pitstop VES called in that his tires were shot. Then as RIC came in he ran the fastest midsection of his race, which got him out in front. I wonder whether VES tricked the team in taking RIC in.

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djos
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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G-J I'm absolutely not a Max hater, I'm actually a fan but he needs to calm down and race clean when defending.

Personally I'm looking forward to another wet race to see if he can replicate his incredible Brazilian performance from last year.
"In downforce we trust"

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strad
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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My translation says this:
Actually, Verstappen was the faster one at that time - but this immense slipstream effect made everything different,
But what do I know? :lol:
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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I'm surprised at how quickly the weather around Max has changed. I said it plenty of times in 2016 and 2017 that the shenanigans he was pulling off were 'too reliant' on people around him co-operating. This year, people around him, specially the front runners have taken a stand combined with his impatience and petulance and the results are quite alarming.

I don't think Verstappen has suddenly become bad. I also fully support the theory that he's one of the brightest spots I've seen come to the sport since Hamilton/Vettel but I think the latter two learn extremely quickly and have a good balance of combining ruthlessness with fair racing. At this level, you have to be hard and cut throat. Max has the speed, he needs to cut out the stupidity. And sorry, but there's no better word for it. The worst thing I see around forums are videos of legends like Schumacher/Senna doing similar things as if it's some sort of validation. It's not. They've done some equally stupid things that they accepted regret over later.. I get that we don't need to over sterilise the sport but when a top drawer driver in one of the best teams currently makes 1.5 mistakes in a weekend over 4 races then something is not right. It's a mindset thing and like I said, he was very fortunate in 16 and 17 with some of his antics but luck seems to have run out.
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J.A.W.
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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strad wrote:
06 May 2018, 03:27
My translation says this:
Actually, Verstappen was the faster one at that time - but this immense slipstream effect made everything different,
But what do I know? :lol:
I'd reckon the curiously apropos saying - 'double-Dutch' - explains this one, strad.

In both the idiomatic American English usage, with the 'switchback' double-skipping-rope-jump routine ( Max's 'move'),
& in the alternative English language meaning, of obfuscative 'double-speak' - by the officials, also..



(Of course, the explanation somewhat deadens the humour, but evidently some are a tad deficient - in getting it).

Edit: For the benefit of the humourless non-native English language user who downvoted this post,citing non-comprehension,
I can only suggest recourse to an online dictionary for meaning of 'double-Dutch' - but as for absence of a grasp as
to why it is funny.. & thus seemingly worthy of a downvote... ( & an ill-directed anti-US remark, - I aint American),
well, frankly, I can't help you with that big of a deficiency.. or mean spirit ( no word for schadenfreude, in English)..
Last edited by J.A.W. on 07 May 2018, 09:48, edited 1 time in total.
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netoperek
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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Lauda has made his comment on Max's problem just before Baku. In this article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... Grand-Prix he said:
"Normally, you learn from your mistakes, but it doesn't work with him, At some point, it's no longer a question of age, but a matter of intelligence."
I think he has a point, to some degree. Like with anything else in life, You can find people that do think before they act/are aware of possible consequences of their actions while acting and those who don't. Max's decisions and driving style thus far, seem to rely heavily on intstinct. I think no one will argue that he is a natural talent and his car driving ability, which is dependent on instinctive reactions is very good. That said, even though I guess all of the good drivers (perhaps excluding the greatest ones), are not doing and shouldn't exactly be doing complete overview before making any decision on track, calculating risk and possible outcome of decisions that have already costed You a race before, should be somewhat natural.
In the same article Max stated: "Does it mean I have to calm down? I don't think so.", which could lead to a conclusion, that he still doesn't really comprehend that those errors happen because he fails to forsee an outcome of his own actions. It looks like he's obviously unhappy with an outcome of the bad things that happen to him on track, but won't acknowledge that his decision making process can be what prompts those situations.
I'm not saying Max is plain and simple dumb, as I don't know the man to judge him. Maybe it's some sort of fatal mixture of overgrown ego, self confidence, self perception and adrenaline that blocks his ability to think from time to time. I wouldn't say he is the sharpest knife in the drawer either, as he should have learned some lessons by now.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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That´s not due to lack of intelligence, but lack of criticism from his bosses. When you make a mistake, but your boss says that was not your mistake....

This is specially noticeable with a young driver who should be learning, but isn´t because both his father and his boss are over-protecting him. IMHO both RBR and Joss, while trying to protect Max, might be responsible of ruining his promising career, because RBR might be protecting him at this point, but there might be a point where they will get tired of repairing his car and loosing points, position in both the WDC and WCC and money, and if they (RBR) get tired, no other team will accept a driver who crash his car one each two GPs

darkpino
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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Wow, I’ve been reading this thread now for some time. Let’s make very clear that even though I’m a Dutchman I’m not impressed with the job Max is doing at the moment. He makes a lot of mistakes and I also think that he’s very lucky that there’s not a big talent getting ready in the lower ranks (or ToroRosso) otherwise he’d probably do a ‘Kvyat-move’ later this year.

But to say he’s crashing every two races just because he had a hard season start? That’s a bridge too far for me, he has to change but he didn’t suddenly become some kind of crasher

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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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darkpino wrote:
07 May 2018, 09:51
Wow, I’ve been reading this thread now for some time. Let’s make very clear that even though I’m a Dutchman I’m not impressed with the job Max is doing at the moment. He makes a lot of mistakes and I also think that he’s very lucky that there’s not a big talent getting ready in the lower ranks (or ToroRosso) otherwise he’d probably do a ‘Kvyat-move’ later this year.

But to say he’s crashing every two races just because he had a hard season start? That’s a bridge too far for me, he has to change but he didn’t suddenly become some kind of crasher
Are you sure about that?

Perhaps a review of Max's 2018 season results so far, is in order?

Sure looks like he has "suddenly become some kind of crasher", with a 50% DNF rate.. no?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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darkpino wrote:
07 May 2018, 09:51
But to say he’s crashing every two races just because he had a hard season start? That’s a bridge too far for me, he has to change but he didn’t suddenly become some kind of crasher
Australia spin(floor damage from running wide?);
Bahrain crash in Q(PU spike?), crash in race(Ham dared to defend!?);
China went of(Hamilton again), crash in to Vettel;
Baku FP crash(blame it on the wind), race crash (Helmut forgot to tell Ric he's the slower one).

Have I missed something?

P. S. I'm sorry if I sound too offensive, but IMO you are wrong.

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

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It seems to me that RB doesn't care about results, only about headlines.
Their choices of drivers was unusual from results point of view.
Ricciardo over Vergne(50-50 IMO),
letting Vettel go,
Kvyat over Vergne (8-22 pts, wtf!?),
dropping Kvyat because of reckless driving after 1 crash, (and substituting him with Max, who in Australia pitted on his own and then crashed into teammate out of frustration!?),
letting Sainz go.
And now it seems they will let Ricciardo go(IMO top 4 driver), but they are happy to keep Max!?