Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

[AJI]

I don't what he means, but I remember that when the VSC was introduced, they told us that its cause is to neutralise the race, in contrast with the regular SC. If you pit, that affects racing, hence it should be banned immediately.

The loophole is that it neutralises lap times, but it doesn't guarantee position. I think RIC lost 2 places to Mercedes at COTA last year (maybe 2016?) because he pitted just before the VSC but the Mercs pitted during the VSC...

[AJI]

Is it possible that car 2 comes into pit under vsc , lap after car 1 comes into pit . Car 1 should come out in front of car 2, but what if car 2 ups his pace to get in front of car 1 , and after it comes in front slows down to make that lap regular to vsc rules ?

That scenario is entirely legal.

[Phil]

He lost his track position to Max due to a slow pitstop (right-rear tire).

That's exactly what I'm talking about. He should have come out in front of VER.., and then he thought he could have attacked BOT and HAM on new tyres, which is pretty optimistic at Barcelona, but if Mercedes had reacted (double pitted) and Ferrari hadn't f'd the stop then he would have won the race. It's just a case of sour grapes...

This is in the wrong topic, but here it goes anyway: Ferrari gambled. They were ahead of Bottas and from what it sounds like, they were sure they and everyone else was on a 2-stop race. In order to cover Bottas, they preempted a potential undercut by stopping first. What they got wrong is that Bottas had that much more pace that he would have got by Vettel by stopping later. Bottas had a slow pit stop so that was that. The early stop however meant that they were on a definite 2-stop. When the VSC came out, they again thought of preempting Mercedes by going for it. Mercedes didn't stop and made the one-stop last, despite the early stop by Bottas.

So in other words, Ferrari beat themselves to 2nd to some degree. They were also vulnerable because they lost Kimi to use as a test-case.

[NathanOlder]

Surely letting the drivers dictate their own speed is the problem. Why can't we have a VSC button in the car, sets a speed limit of say.... 100mph. Then when the car is in the yellow flag zone, that drops to the pit lane speed limit, then back up to 100mph once past the danger zone. That way no one can mes around speeding up from the start line down to turn 1 to try and jump someone coming out the pits or vice versa.

[Phil]

To be honest, I really don't see an issue. There will always be some bitching about VSC or Safety-Car periods. Back in the day of refueling, many were bitching about it too as it compromised those on their (fuel) strategy etc. You will always have the winners and the losers. Vettel won Australia thanks to the VSC, he lost Baku because of it. Both Baku and here in Spain, it was his team that stuffed up. In Baku, they should have kept him out longer and waited for that safety car, just like Mercedes and RedBull did. In Spain, they shouldn't have pitted at all, and even so, they only lost the position due to a problem with the right-rear.

I think VSC and safety cars spice up the show. Some teams factor it in, some don't. Some benefit, some don't. If we wanted the fastest car to win everytime, no one would bother watching F1 anymore since it would be a boring processional race from pole to victory.

[Ennis]

Surely letting the drivers dictate their own speed is the problem. Why can't we have a VSC button in the car, sets a speed limit of say.... 100mph. Then when the car is in the yellow flag zone, that drops to the pit lane speed limit, then back up to 100mph once past the danger zone. That way no one can mes around speeding up from the start line down to turn 1 to try and jump someone coming out the pits or vice versa.

It's really difficult to get anything which works perfectly. I tend to watch the live timings because I'm a dweeb like that, and you see drivers consistently going a couple of 10ths faster than others under the VSC. It's impossible for me to tell if this is one driver being conservative, or another just slightly pushing it, but there's always a variance. I'd love them to publish the required Deltas, and the drivers performances against those.

[TwanV]

The system is pretty flawed even if all cars go around at the same speed; at the restart a car on corner entry will have a massive advantage over a car at corner exit.. What NathanOlders suggestion does cover is the nuisance of backmarkers failing to keep to their delta. Anyway I don't really see what the VSC has to offer over double yellow, and in my opinion it needs to be scrapped as it does upset racing.

[Jolle]

So.... he tried to use a loophole (a pitstop while counting "racing speed") and that didn't work, so now he is..... complaining that other people have better loopholes?

If the rule is 40% of your normal speed, the pitlane speed limit should also be 40% of that, right?

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, and the pit stop The mechanics have to move at 40% speed and the wheel guns operate slower too

[siskue2005]

Yeah, and the pit stop The mechanics have to move at 40% speed and the wheel guns operate slower too

[siskue2005]

So.... he tried to use a loophole (a pitstop while counting "racing speed") and that didn't work, so now he is..... complaining that other people have better loopholes?

If the rule is 40% of your normal speed, the pitlane speed limit should also be 40% of that, right?

That is not what vettel is talking bout.

See this quote below that loophole is what he is talking

A 'normal' line around a corner may cover (say) 300 mtr of road/distance, which following the formula takes X seconds.

A wide line covers 320 mtr which takes the same time as 300 mtr plus allows you to close up 20 mtr as the same distance is covered.

[Phil]

I think we need some practical examples.

As far as i have understood, there are lots of mini sectors where the car passes through. The time is measured how long it takes the cars to pass through.

Lets assume no VSC and a mini sector time of 10 seconds.

VSC hits and now suddenly the lap time needs to be increased by 40%.

That means that this car passing through that mini sector must now do a time of 14 seconds.

If that driver takes a longer line but faster, he’ll still have to post a time at the very least of 14s when he passes through the checkpoint. I am not quite sure where this loophole is?

[NathanOlder]

Is it not done on minimum mini sector time. Therefore lines dont matter in the slightest.

Edit, just read phils post, i see it exactly how phil does .

[Edax]

He lost his track position to Max due to a slow pitstop (right-rear tire).

That's exactly what I'm talking about. He should have come out in front of VER.., and then he thought he could have attacked BOT and HAM on new tyres, which is pretty optimistic at Barcelona, but if Mercedes had reacted (double pitted) and Ferrari hadn't f'd the stop then he would have won the race. It's just a case of sour grapes...

Actually in Ted's post race notebook, Ted states that Vet overshot his mark so the mechs needed to reposition causing delay. If true then it was his own doing.

[Phil]

I am fairly confident Vettel is covering for his team. A great team player. Watch the replay yourself. I did and i think there was an issue with the right-rear. If he had overshot, wouldnt the other tires be off too?