2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

[spin1/2]

Though times Mclaren fans. They kept blaming Honda when it was obvious Honda was not the only issue. Now they cannot hide behind that scapegoat. Alonso will bail 100%.

Best chassis on the grid, on par with the Red Bull.

[Manoah2u]

effin grosjean.........seriously.

get that man out of an f1 car asap. this is just embarassing.

[zibby43]

So the more interesting question should be: Why was Mercedes almost half a second faster than usual only in Barcelona and France?

False equivalence. The textbook definition.

To answer your question: Mercedes has always been strong in Barcelona. They dominated there in testing, as well.

And at Paul Ricard, they brought a fresh, upgraded PU and are entering the section of the F1 calendar that the W09 is designed for: aerodynamic efficiency.

Canada as well is a track Mercedes loves. The new PU didn't give Mercedes a gain of half a second.

Nor did I say it did. Emphasis above.

I also believe Lewis would've been on pole in Canada with that old PU if he hadn't locked up in the hairpin on every attempt.

Also, Lewis said he had another 3 tenths he gave away in Q3 today. He's not in dominant qualifying form, yet.

[TAG]

False equivalence. The textbook definition.

To answer your question: Mercedes has always been strong in Barcelona. They dominated there in testing, as well.

And at Paul Ricard, they brought a fresh, upgraded PU and are entering the section of the F1 calendar that the W09 is designed for: aerodynamic efficiency.

Canada as well is a track Mercedes loves. The new PU didn't give Mercedes a gain of half a second.

Last race Lewis was off. If Lewis brought his A game he could have beaten Botas which will be almost identical to Vettels pole. In Canada, with a old engine Merc was equal to Ferrari which was sporting a new engine. Now, with a new engine Merc is faster.

Mercedes stated that Hamilton hit a bird in his first attempt during Q3 which lodged debris in the brake duct which they didn't catch, causing the lock up issues at the hair pin. The race Sunday he was lucky to finish due to overheating. Lewis doesn't have off weekends in Canada. But a lot can happen during a race weekend.

[search]

effin grosjean.........seriously.

this really shouldn't have happened... especially as it was just a (basically meaningless) run on old tires anyway to get in the groove

[Wynters]

Ferrari has never had a real engine advantage. If any, they were on par with Mercedes.

So their ability earlier in the season to run more downforce but still be as fast (or faster) on the straights was down to?

Redbull has been just within 2.5 tenths off Mercedes' pace in every Qualifying. The only 2 Qualifying sessions in which Mercedes was clearly faster than Redbull were Barcelona and Paul Ricard (I intentionally didn't count Melbourne because that was 80% up to hammer time). On both weekends the special tyres were used and on both weekends Mercedes was 6-7 tenths faster than Redbull. Even on a power sensitive track like China the one lap pace advantage of Mercedes over Redbull was just 1.5 tenths.

Even if we exclude Australia because of 'reasons', we'll need to exclude Bahrain as well, given the gap was larger than 'just' 2.5ths (which is an arbitary difference) and Monacao. I'm not sure that any 'rule' that has to disregard nearly half of the data points to fit is a particularly good rule but if that's the best you can come up with then points for trying.

So the more interesting question should be: Why was Mercedes almost half a second faster than usual only in Barcelona and France?

And Australia? Why were Red Bull faster in Monaco? Where did Ferrari find more than half a second for China? Remember, everything is apparently down to the tyres so your options for an answer are pretty limited here.

[Brenton]

Is it widely agreed now that McLaren is very slow? Over 5 races into the season many were still arguing that it was bad luck, combined with waiting for the B Spec or "real 2018 car", etc and that Mclaren would come good very soon. It is kind of shocking to see these two teams that dominated F1 when I became a fan, not able to get out of Q1 today. Maybe this means Haas and Sauber will be the dominating teams in the 2030s? Who knows.

What I don't understand about the Kimi apologists who say that he's doing a good job, is what would they consider to be an unsatisfactory performance? Finishing behind a Renault? Miss Q3 on a regular basis?

"Apologists"? You should be ashamed of your manners.

Anyone who has to throw away races, including wins like Kimi is bound to be demotivated and to lose a degree of self esteem. He is a human being with feelings and aspirations after all, not a robot. Every driver who has been in that position (the likes of Coulthard, Barichello, Massa etc) speaks bitterly about the experience. You and I would to.

We are also forgetting that Kimi is a World champion who by dint of his talent, has spent the majority of his F1 career at top teams. Only the best can reach such heights, therefore it is only fair to see Kimi's current performances within the circumstances of his current role. A fairer argument would be to question why a senior driver and WDC would take the role of a number two, which should be a younger drivers preserve.

Lastly, I'm a Lewis, McLaren and Mercedes fan, but that doesn't stop me from being objective.

I wasn't sure why you took offense to 'apologist' but now I read that it might have politically loaded / controversy related meaning in some countries/contexts. Apologies that my terminology may have been interpreted that way. "Defender" would be a more accurate word.

I understand. It's an emotional thing. Instead of answering my question as to what would constitute an unacceptable level of performance from him, you explained the reasons why you're a defender. I agree that it can harm a driver's performance level to be treated as a #2, as those drivers have attested.

The logic is that Kimi is treated very unfairly by Ferrari and that this alleged treatment gives him a free pass to perform much worse than his teammate? Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you. I won't debate the merit of whether or not he's treated very unfairly here since it's a race thread so let's just refer to this race. How bad would Kimi have to have performed today in qualifying, and tomorrow in the race, to be considered unacceptable?

[PlatinumZealot]

Though times Mclaren fans. They kept blaming Honda when it was obvious Honda was not the only issue. Now they cannot hide behind that scapegoat. Alonso will bail 100%.

Best chassis on the grid, on par with the Red Bull.

More like best cheese on the grille!

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Hamilton Vs Vettel lap comparison.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Redbull has been just within 2.5 tenths off Mercedes' pace in every Qualifying. The only 2 Qualifying sessions in which Mercedes was clearly faster than Redbull were Barcelona and Paul Ricard (I intentionally didn't count Melbourne because that was 80% up to hammer time). On both weekends the special tyres were used and on both weekends Mercedes was 6-7 tenths faster than Redbull. Even on a power sensitive track like China the one lap pace advantage of Mercedes over Redbull was just 1.5 tenths.

There is a case for Mercedes to fight for that, Pirelli is favoring Ferrari by having the other spec tyres! This is a classic case to bring Tyre war back. There are two spec tyres that Pirelli is bringing, where each one suits the strengths of different cars. Either FIA should allow Pirelli to bring two different spec tyres, for which Mercedes should fight for, where both Ferrari and Mercedes can be happy with their respective spec tyres (nor sure of the teams, but certainly fans should be satisfied) OR bring tyre war back with another tyre supplier.

[Restomaniac]

It's odd, isn't it? Where has Ferrari's engine advantage gone?

Ferrari has never had a real engine advantage. If any, they were on par with Mercedes.
The thing which made Mercedes look slower than they were in Qualifying was mainly the tyre issue they had.

Redbull has been just within 2.5 tenths off Mercedes' pace in every Qualifying. The only 2 Qualifying sessions in which Mercedes was clearly faster than Redbull were Barcelona and Paul Ricard (I intentionally didn't count Melbourne because that was 80% up to hammer time). On both weekends the special tyres were used and on both weekends Mercedes was 6-7 tenths faster than Redbull. Even on a power sensitive track like China the one lap pace advantage of Mercedes over Redbull was just 1.5 tenths.

So the more interesting question should be: Why was Mercedes almost half a second faster than usual only in Barcelona and France?

You cannot just discount Melbourne like that. We have NO idea how Bottas would have gone.

When you dismiss an outlier like that it totally blows your argument out of the water.

[F1Krof]

In case the video doesn't load on site, here is the link to follow:

//cdn-b-east.streamable.com/video/mp4-m ... 1529837028

[atanatizante]

That`s the forecast for the race, according to Accuweather : https://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/le-ca ... ast/151359

[LM10]

So their ability earlier in the season to run more downforce but still be as fast (or faster) on the straights was down to?

Less drag?

You cannot just discount Melbourne like that. We have NO idea how Bottas would have gone

When you dismiss an outlier like that it totally blows your argument out of the water.

Me discounting Melbourne is even in favor of the arguments that Ferrari was having an engine advantage early season. If so, where was that advantage in Melbourne then? Let's say Bottas would have been half a second faster than the fastest Ferrari. Seems awful lot against a car with a more powerful engine, don't you think?

[Manoah2u]

effin grosjean.........seriously.

this really shouldn't have happened... especially as it was just a (basically meaningless) run on old tires anyway to get in the groove

probably was ericsson again