2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

[ClarkBT11]

Vettel basically outbraked himself and understeered his front wing into the back of Valtteri's rear tire. It was a driving error reminiscent of last year. Imho, it more like deserved a 10 second penalty instead of a 5, if there is such a penalty. Not that it would've made any difference for him in the end, but anyway that's what I thought his infringement deserved at the time (and now too).

I'm not denying it was Vettel's error, it was more unfortunate than anything. It's not like he ploughed through Bottas and couldn't make the apex. He was boxed behind Hamilton and was driving into the corner Bottas braked late and just crossed his rear tyre over Vettel's front wing. It's still Vettel's responsibility not to make contact, he realised what was going to happen and locked up.
It Probably got five seconds because it was the first corner. Hamilton said in his post race interview it was a racing incident, but it cost Mercedes points and the fact Vettel finished higher than Bottas is what can leave a sour taste, and make the penalty look too lenient.

[djos]

I'm definitely not a Vettel fan, but that penalty was harsh, it was a first lap incident - they happen.

I was wondering why Danny was so slow at the end but the RedBull topic has some shots of Dan Ric's front wing, it was missing half the cascades on both sides! Quite bizarre!

Even more bizzarely Horner suggesting probable cause as debris on the track being responsible for 'debonding' the cascade wings on both sides.....sort of conflating impact damage with sub-optimal FW bonding assembly!

Yeah I don't buy that explanation either, smells like bs!

[Mamba]

If anything, Bottas should have been penalised! He could have avoided the whole incident by qualifying in P3...

In all seriousness, Vettel admitted his mistake. He was boxed in and could not avoid Hamilton or Bottas. Bottas turned in and in doing so hit Vettel. Yes he did give racing space, but with the lock and understeer Vettel could not stop in time.
5s penalty was fine. First corner and things do happen there. Now move on. The Vettel hate on forums like this one is almost a comical standard by now and really deprives from what should be a discussion of the race.

On to the Red Bull Ring!

[Manoah2u]

I'm definitely not a Vettel fan, but that penalty was harsh, it was a first lap incident - they happen.

I was wondering why Danny was so slow at the end but the RedBull topic has some shots of Dan Ric's front wing, it was missing half the cascades on both sides! Quite bizarre!

Even more bizzarely Horner suggesting probable cause as debris on the track being responsible for 'debonding' the cascade wings on both sides.....sort of conflating impact damage with sub-optimal FW bonding assembly!

Yeah I don't buy that explanation either, smells like bs!

to be honest, the first few corners of the race were chaotic and i haven't paid much attention to dannyric's race, neither at the start, but with the debris of vettel and bottas going everywhere, and then debris from ocon and gasly going everywhere (despite those 2 being behind dannyric), and max claiming there was still debris on the curbs, it's not unheared of that some chunks have hit his FW and were enough damaging to detach at either rocking a good curb or at high velocity. not to mention there could have been the slightest contact at the start.

is it weird that both endplates got off? yeah, agreed. could it be bonding issues? yeah, but then, why? it hasn't happened before and it's not something you gain/save anything on really. transport damage would sound also like a plausible possibility imho.

[djos]

Yeah I don't buy that explanation either, smells like bs!

to be honest, the first few corners of the race were chaotic and i haven't paid much attention to dannyric's race, neither at the start, but with the debris of vettel and bottas going everywhere, and then debris from ocon and gasly going everywhere (despite those 2 being behind dannyric), and max claiming there was still debris on the curbs, it's not unheared of that some chunks have hit his FW and were enough damaging to detach at either rocking a good curb or at high velocity. not to mention there could have been the slightest contact at the start.

is it weird that both endplates got off? yeah, agreed. could it be bonding issues? yeah, but then, why? it hasn't happened before and it's not something you gain/save anything on really. transport damage would sound also like a plausible possibility imho.

it wasnt the end plates, it was the actual cascades:



and how it should be (top 2 Cascades with green arrows are gone in pic above):

[Sierra117]

Has anyone noticed Liberty manipulates a lot of the radio communications? How is this allowed to happen? It happened with the Kimi-steering wheel situation and now with Alonso when he said he doesn't care (regarding Grosjean) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LN9Sv ... be&t=4m52s (compare this to the radio comms video Liberty uploaded).

This should not be taken lightly by broadcasting regulation (then again, I don't think American media groups are regulated, are they?). It's akin to twisting people's words, taking them out of context and essentially giving a false story to viewers, damaging drivers' PR and putting more pressure on them to clarify situations when that time and effort can go towards recovering from an already stressful and busy calendar.

[nzjrs]

Has anyone noticed Liberty manipulates a lot of the radio communications? How is this allowed to happen? It happened with the Kimi-steering wheel situation and now with Alonso when he said he doesn't care (regarding Grosjean) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LN9Sv ... be&t=4m52s (compare this to the radio comms video Liberty uploaded).

This should not be taken lightly by broadcasting regulation (then again, I don't think American media groups are regulated, are they?). It's akin to twisting people's words, taking them out of context and essentially giving a false story to viewers, damaging drivers' PR and putting more pressure on them to clarify situations when that time and effort can go towards recovering from an already stressful and busy calendar.

Great post. Comparing what they choose to quote in their Youtube clips in comparison with the full audio shows how It's cynically manipulative by liberty. Very disappointed with them.

[rscsr]

Has anyone noticed Liberty manipulates a lot of the radio communications? How is this allowed to happen? It happened with the Kimi-steering wheel situation and now with Alonso when he said he doesn't care (regarding Grosjean) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LN9Sv ... be&t=4m52s (compare this to the radio comms video Liberty uploaded).

This should not be taken lightly by broadcasting regulation (then again, I don't think American media groups are regulated, are they?). It's akin to twisting people's words, taking them out of context and essentially giving a false story to viewers, damaging drivers' PR and putting more pressure on them to clarify situations when that time and effort can go towards recovering from an already stressful and busy calendar.

I thought that it doesn't matter where the media group is from, but only who broadcasts it (i.e. SKY)

[turbof1]

it wasnt the end plates, it was the actual cascades:

https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... g-rb14.jpg

and how it should be (top 2 Cascades with green arrows are gone in pic above):
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1735/410 ... 2a67_b.jpg

Should be a bonding issue. He didn't have contact with any car and usually you don't see that part gone without parts like the endplate being tore off as well.

Interesting the car still had that much pace. That's a whole chunk of downforce and Y250 vortex control lost.

[falonso81]

Didn't Ricciardo noticed? I don't remember him coming on the radio reporting anything.

[djos]

Didn't Ricciardo noticed? I don't remember him coming on the radio reporting anything.

They just didn't play it, Ferrari told Kimi that Dan was having issues and to push to catch him and that was played during the broadcast.

[bonjon1979]

If anything, Bottas should have been penalised! He could have avoided the whole incident by qualifying in P3...

In all seriousness, Vettel admitted his mistake. He was boxed in and could not avoid Hamilton or Bottas. Bottas turned in and in doing so hit Vettel. Yes he did give racing space, but with the lock and understeer Vettel could not stop in time.
5s penalty was fine. First corner and things do happen there. Now move on. The Vettel hate on forums like this one is almost a comical standard by now and really deprives from what should be a discussion of the race.

On to the Red Bull Ring!

Seriously? Bottas hit vettel? He was ahead of him and Vettel nerfed him in the rear. I'm not one who thinks that Vettel wasn't punished severely enough. He was racing in the slipstream, lost a bit of downforce and then couldn't slow it down. It was his mistake but it wasn't a heinous act of terrible driving. It was just a miscalculation. But let's not start throwing silly remarks around like, Bottas hit Vettel as it does nothing to really help the discourse.

[Mattchu]

If anything, Bottas should have been penalised! He could have avoided the whole incident by qualifying in P3...

In all seriousness, Vettel admitted his mistake. He was boxed in and could not avoid Hamilton or Bottas. Bottas turned in and in doing so hit Vettel. Yes he did give racing space, but with the lock and understeer Vettel could not stop in time.
5s penalty was fine. First corner and things do happen there. Now move on. The Vettel hate on forums like this one is almost a comical standard by now and really deprives from what should be a discussion of the race.

On to the Red Bull Ring!

On the cascades issue, not sure which version RB were using [flip up or not] but we`ve seen many a time that part flexing like anything and bouncing around. I suppose it may just need a little more strengh in a certain area for when the wing is on full crank, he`s lucky it didn`t fly into the radiator!

[TAG]

Seeing the race again and spend time reviewing the start, I'm 100% sure that Bottas and Hamilton talked about how they'd counter the start with Vettel on the softer compound sure to attack the way he did. Pretty brilliant actually.

[Wynters]

Seeing the race again and spend time reviewing the start, I'm 100% sure that Bottas and Hamilton talked about how they'd counter the start with Vettel on the softer compound sure to attack the way he did. Pretty brilliant actually.

It's almost certainly a discussion that's taken place. Previously, when Vettel got Bottas into turn 1 earlier in the season, Hamilton commented that he realised he was giving Vettel a tow and should have shifted over to give it to Bottas. I suspect the current approach is "If P2 can challenge into the first corner then go for it. However, if P1 gets off the line first and looks like he'll lead into turn one then the pair of you should work together to make sure you are P1 and P2 after the first lap."

There's just no downside at the moment (if Mercedes were P1 and P2 in WDC then things would be different).