2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

[foxmulder_ms]

Watch again. He just changes direction he is not trying to correct an oversteer or anything. The onboards show it clearly. There was malicious intent.

I think you're overanalyzing. You could probably look at every other on-board from drivers driving through that corner and see that there will be moments when the drivers are straightening their steering momentarily either to follow the natural progression of the track/corner and as a result of balancing the car while on full-throttle and accelerating out of the corner. At full tilt, you want the car balanced for maximum traction, not steering/cornering.

Same applies to when braking. When braking, you tend to have your steering straight, not while cornering.

Also to counter your argument; What in gods name would Perez have to gain by steering right into the car next to him? At that point, he was completely alongside. The chance of getting damage is IMO too high. Same applies to Perez's steering into Sirotkin. It was worthy of a penalty, yes, but he completely missed he was there. He wanted to block him and thought he was sufficiently ahead to do so.

Even watching that video, I am totally staying on my view point that Perez did not see/realize Ocon.

Not at all. It is crystal clear for me He tried to scare Ocon by touching wheels but there was a wall which ended Ocon's race. Simple really. It was obvious even before seeing the onboards.

Anyhow, he is obviously saying I dint see Ocon. duh..

[Phil]

With all due respect, you dont scare someone who is driving half an inch next to you. You scare them if you have a gap between yourself, so your movement (assuming it is intended as a scare) is caught, picked up by the other driver who THEN backs out. This doesnt work when you are that close and the other car is fully alongside.

Force India have just lost all their points 2 races ago. I have zero doubt that both drivers are absolutely doing everything they can to optimize eachothers result for the team. There is zero in it for them to battle each other to that point, scare eachother or anything else ridiculous.

If anything else, Perezs later incident with Sirotkin shows that he was perhaps lacking that spatial awareness of what is happening around him.

[Juzh]

Really nice back and forth battle between sainz and ericsson

[Edax]

that cheeky checo!

I saw him opening up the steering during the incident but thought it was because of the touch. They didn't touch rear wheels moments before he opened up the steering?

they touched after he opened the steering wheel

on the vid from the rear it looks like they touched rear wheels a second before they tangled up their fronts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_XNPr8lexE

Indeed it seems they did. Plus in the overhead shots you can see that PER was looking to the left which seems to collaborate his story.

The incident with Sirotkin on the other hand was more roadrage than anything else. Ridiculous.

But with Ocon it was simply Ocon putting his car where perhaps he shouldn’t have, I find it hard to blame PER for it. It is hard to envision any other outcome with another driver behind the wheel. That corner is already difficult enough to take two wide, making it three wide is asking for problems.

Having explored the walls at Monaco, Macau, Spa and Baku, Ocon should know by now that you should not take too much risk when you have nowhere to run to.

[foxmulder_ms]

they touched after he opened the steering wheel

on the vid from the rear it looks like they touched rear wheels a second before they tangled up their fronts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_XNPr8lexE

Indeed it seems they did. Plus in the overhead shots you can see that PER was looking to the left which seems to collaborate his story.

The incident with Sirotkin on the other hand was more roadrage than anything else. Ridiculous.

But with Ocon it was simply Ocon putting his car where perhaps he shouldn’t have, I find it hard to blame PER for it. It is hard to envision any other outcome with another driver behind the wheel. That corner is already difficult enough to take two wide, making it three wide is asking for problems.

Having explored the walls at Monaco, Macau, Spa and Baku, Ocon should know by now that you should not take too much risk when you have nowhere to run to.

I am shocked some can blame Ocon for this.

[foxmulder_ms]

With all due respect, you dont scare someone who is driving half an inch next to you. You scare them if you have a gap between yourself, so your movement (assuming it is intended as a scare) is caught, picked up by the other driver who THEN backs out. This doesnt work when you are that close and the other car is fully alongside.

Force India have just lost all their points 2 races ago. I have zero doubt that both drivers are absolutely doing everything they can to optimize eachothers result for the team. There is zero in it for them to battle each other to that point, scare eachother or anything else ridiculous.

If anything else, Perezs later incident with Sirotkin shows that he was perhaps lacking that spatial awareness of what is happening around him.

?

Perez's fault either way. I guess I dont understand this post.

[strad]

When you have oversteer, you don't keep on turning in. You counter it.

Or lift slightly when your teammate is beside you in clear line of sight. If you're going to say he didn't see Ocon then you have to say he had no idea where the wall was or where he was on the track. He is and has been a jerk many times and as was said earlier, if he didn't bring a boat load of cash he wouldn't have a drive.
There is something about leaving room when you're being overtaken. From what you've said he has no business being on the track with other drivers. No Awareness... you know like he didn't see Serotkin

[rscsr]

When you have oversteer, you don't keep on turning in. You counter it.

Or lift slightly when your teammate is beside you in clear line of sight. If you're going to say he didn't see Ocon then you have to say he had no idea where the wall was or where he was on the track. He is and has been a jerk many times and as was said earlier, if he didn't bring a boat load of cash he wouldn't have a drive.
There is something about leaving room when you're being overtaken. From what you've said he has no business being on the track with other drivers. No Awareness... you know like he didn't see Serotkin

Somehow I remember such crashes of Perez only with Ocon. Like he just drives extra aggressively with his teammate. Even at McLaren I somehow remember him driving extra aggressively against Button. But could also just be selective memory since crashes with your teammate are usually twice as stupid.

[dans79]

Somehow I remember such crashes of Perez only with Ocon. Like he just drives extra aggressively with his teammate. Even at McLaren I somehow remember him driving extra aggressively against Button. But could also just be selective memory since crashes with your teammate are usually twice as stupid.

It's not selective memory!

[djos]

If a driver does not realise someone is almost interlocked wheels with them, well, maybe they are not cut out for racing.
I can not see it any other way than deliberate. When taken in account of the other one, something has fazed Chico.

Exactly, this isn't the first time we've seen perez drive dirty against Ocon or even another driver, didn't he try something like this with Button at McLaren?

Edit: Beaten to it!

[GrandAxe]

The statistics for how many times per season each driver has crashed with a teammate within the last couple of years will show Perez in very poor light. But like I said earlier, pay drivers do much to keep the sport alive, so leniency is likely to continue shining on him.

A bit more on the developments since the race:

Esteban Ocon says that his Force India teammate Sergio Perez apologised after their costly first lap clash in Singapore.

But the Frenchman made it clear that what he described as a "terrible situation" won't be quickly forgotten.

Ocon was pushed into the wall on the exit of Turn 3 when he attempted to go round the outside of Perez, and the Mexican moved over on him.

The pair talked about the incident when Perez, who finished out of the points, returned to the Force India camp after the race.

"He apologised to me, in the room he said he apologised," Ocon told Motorsport.com. "But it's not because of that that everything's gone.

"The only thing I look at at the moment is that we come home with no points on a weekend where we should have been both in the points, getting strong results.

"We had the pace for it. And yeah, it's a terrible situation to be where we are now.

"That's all I can say, there's nothing else to comment about. No, it's not the same situation as last year, we've turned the page from there. And that's it really."

https://www.motorsport.com/us/f1/news/p ... 78777/amp/

[dans79]

The press really giving it to Perez!

[Phil]

Gotta love the mind games. Ocon (and it seems the rest of the media) is just playing the political angle since he/they know(s) he is the one without a seat next season...

[dans79]

Gotta love the mind games. Ocon (and it seems the rest of the media) is just playing the political angle since he/they know(s) he is the one without a seat next season...

Figuratively speaking, Perez needs to be smacked around some, as his race was horrendous!

[Wynters]

He hasn't been exiled from Red Bull, he's only being excluded from meetings talking about anything to do with next years car. SO if they speak with Honda, Max sits in, Ricciardo doesn't. If they were to have a meeting about updates drivers want, do they want more front end, do they want stiffer suspension, do they want changes on the steering wheel, etc, again Max is in those meetings and maybe Gasly too, but not Ricciardo.

Ricciardo is excluded from absolutely nothing when it comes to normal day to day business when it comes to getting the best out of this year's car.

So all the performance data, the upgrades, the every day marginal gains (most of which go into next year's car) he's kept fully up to date with? He's in the garage, looking at all the feeds, chatting with the engineers in detail about what they are working on and how that can help him? The discussions about where they are taking the car tomorrow, which strongly indicate where they will be taking the car next year, he's given all the details of?

Maybe he is. Maybe every driver that's leaving to go to a rival is. Maybe progress made this year has little relevance to next year. Maybe when Maclaren switched to Honda, Mercedes were quite happy to keep sharing every detail of their progress. Maybe Red Bull is doing the same with Renault. I honestly can't remember who I heard it from originally (I suspect it was Marc Priestly but I'm really not sure), but it makes a lot of sense. At the very least, who do you give the 'test mule' role to, if there was a new engine spec available but it was a bit dicey? Or the less optimal strategy? Would you choose the guy who you've made the face of my product for the next few years? Of the guy that's leaving you to go to a rival? Remember that there is no chance you can either gain or lose a place in the WCC.

Ricciardo just can't match Verstappen and unless Verstappen is busy making a silly mistake then Ricciardo just isn't on his level.

Verstappen is faster over a lap, no question. He's not great over a season though...not yet at least. Verstappen's speed also has nothing to do with Ricciardo being involved in the day-to-day or not.

I trust the person who planted the thought (I appreciate I've not provided evidence of who that was so don't expect others to do the same) and I think it makes sense in a business with such a vast amount of continuity and intellectual property to protect. If my points above haven't swayed you, let's agree to disagree.