2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

[bonjon1979]

I think people are being a bit harsh on him because to be frank if doesn’t take risks he’s not gonna make up points.

True, but his percentage when taking risks is abysmal. To be honest, I can't remember the last time when he took a risk and we said "wow, that's brave and he pulled it off".

For me it was all about Germany and the fact that it’s Hamilton he’s up against. Lewis is able to just turn the screws and it’s going to be hard for anyone to keep it together under the pressure.

[Wynters]

The rule is very simple, if you go off track, even for a car length, you have to make sure to join the track in a safe manor. Verstappen didn’t and got a penalty. Fair. Alonso didn’t And didn’t get a penalty. In China Verstappen went for a gap at Vettel very similar to this race, got a 10 second penalty, fair. Vettel goes for a gap, collides, no further action.

If you want to ignore context and intent in order to make your version of events fit, then feel free. The Stewards don't though. If you really want to get contextualessly pedantic, not only did Verstappen rejoin in an unsafe manner, he forced another car off the track and caused a collision. Similarly, against Vettel he left less than a car's width between his left front and the apex of the corner.

According to you that's four penalties Max should have received.

As for saying that China and Japan were also 'very similar', tell me. Was Vettel alongside Verstappen when they entered the corner? How far alongside? Where did Vettel hit Verstappen? Because, in China, Verstappen doesn't even get his front wing alongside Vettel's rear until Vettel is nearly on the apex and he then puts his front tyre into the rear half of Vettel's car.

[Wynters]

His driving is like German soccer, it ain’t always pretty, but it is very effective

I reckon Verstappen should have had eleven podiums this year, if he'd driven consistently and without big mistakes. He certainly threw away wins in China and Monaco and did the entire team no favours in Baku. It's hard to say that's 'very effective'.

If he matures (as I expect anyone his age to do over the next couple of years) then he'll win Championships. If he keeps smashing his car up, then he won't and it'll be a waste of a great talent.

[zeph]

Alonso made his own "luck". Personality is part of quality.

Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

[GPR-A]

Alonso made his own "luck". Personality is part of quality.

Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

The problem is, there are some stupid people in paddock (in this particular context), like Niki and Horner who haven't worked with him, but THEY KNOW that he is a problem for a team! Whereas people like Ron, Pat Symonds, Flavio and even James Allison haven't said anything like that. That's irony right there. But I am sure those who are at Ferrari, that have seen both Alonso and Vettel work at and drive a Ferrari, definitely understand who they would like to drive their cars. Horner is sour that Alonso didn't join them when HE WANTED and keeps throwing up garbage now and then.

[WaikeCU]

Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

The problem is, there are some stupid people in paddock (in this particular context), like Niki and Horner who haven't worked with him, but THEY KNOW that he is a problem for a team! Whereas people like Ron, Pat Symonds, Flavio and even James Allison haven't said anything like that. That's irony right there. But I am sure those who are at Ferrari, that have seen both Alonso and Vettel work at and drive a Ferrari, definitely understand who they would like to drive their cars. Horner is sour that Alonso didn't join them when HE WANTED and keeps throwing up garbage now and then.

Well that’s being professional. Some just do the job and nothing more than that. Others like to backstab others even if things are going very well. Seems like people who haven’t worked with Alonso, talk smack in a way hoping rivals doubting Alonso’s professionalism and gets passed, so he in the end remains in a bad position or without a drive.

[Shrieker]

Alonso made his own "luck". Personality is part of quality.

Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

Umm.. You're aware that we're talking about a guy who blackmailed his own team when he didn't get his way, right (preferential treatment, when he didn't deserve it) ? Nuff said.

[timbo]

His driving is like German soccer, it ain’t always pretty, but it is very effective

In the two accidents he had today he was lucky not to have a puncture or serious damage to the car.
I am not sure if the result is based on luck it can be called effective. Well, that's speaking only about today.
Other's mentioned China and the whole first half of the season was far from being "effective".

[WaikeCU]

His driving is like German soccer, it ain’t always pretty, but it is very effective

I reckon Verstappen should have had eleven podiums this year, if he'd driven consistently and without big mistakes. He certainly threw away wins in China and Monaco and did the entire team no favours in Baku. It's hard to say that's 'very effective'.

If he matures (as I expect anyone his age to do over the next couple of years) then he'll win Championships. If he keeps smashing his car up, then he won't and it'll be a waste of a great talent.

Max tends to look behind when he’s under pressure and keeps focussing where the car behind is going. Other drivers will find a way to fend of an successful attacking move with a follow-up. Come back stronger and get back out of the turn or by the next turn or force you to lift at certain points, so you’ll get pressure from the car behind and won’t be able to concentrate on overtaking the car ahead.

[WaikeCU]

Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

Umm.. You're aware that we're talking about a guy who blackmailed his own team when he didn't get his way, right (preferential treatment, when he didn't deserve it) ? Nuff said.

Did Lewis not do that as well with Nico?

[TAG]

Congratulations to Vettel on his fast lap, congratulations to Hamilton on his 5th WDC. My condolences to all who are suffering today. Humorous realization of the day, Verstappen hits both Ferrari and still gets on the podium.

[i70q7m7ghw]

How the mighty have fallen...

McLaren and Williams dead last. The end of an era.

Yeah, reminds me of Lotus and Tyrrell.

Hope they can reverse the situation, but just how?

Nothing like Tyrrell, they simply ran out of money. McLaren & Williams have buckets of cash, they just aren't spending it correctly. McLaren exist for a lot more than just F1 these days, I wouldn't be suprised if they considered selling the racing team off and just remain a parts supplier to all teams. Williams just seem to have made a complete mess of their car and don't have the experience in the driving seat to help put it right.

[Restomaniac]

When Alonso did the same more at the busstop chicane at Spa as Verstappen did at Raikkonen, no penalty and "yeah, but he had no place to go" replies here on this forum. Like I was insane to question Alonso's actions....

Alonso very nearly made the corner, only had all four wheels off for a single car length, bounced over an orange kerb on the apex of the next turn and applied so much steering lock his steering wheel was upside down until after Magnusson had tucked in behind.

Verstappen missed the corner almost entirely (he's already off before he's managed to turn even 45 degrees), stays off for more than four car lengths, has no kerb launching his car into the air and as soon as Kimi is alongside him, he winds off nearly half his steering lock.

The incidents are night and day.

Vettel to blame for the later one though and, apart from that rush of blood to the head, Verstappen drove a solid race. If he'd had more of laps 2-53 and less of lap 1 throughout the whole season he'd be within touching distance of Vettel in the WDC, despite having to battle Renault's unreliability for the whole season.

As for Vettels's risktaking in this race, sure, he had to pass Verstappen and get after the Mercs whilst he was on the faster tyre and could challenge them but he sure knows how to pick a terrible spot for an overtake. He said after the race that he'd managed to overtake the whole of the rest of the field without incident but the whole of the rest of the field has no interest in battling him because they will lose time. The minute he comes up to someone he can't cruise by he doesn't seem to adjust his approach. When I think about some of the great overtakes he's made in the past it's...well, confusing.

But we can go back to times when Vettel was in front previously (Singapore 2017). Even when the smart play is to not get involved he (Vettel) seems to be unable to help himself.
In comparison there was a race last year (which escapes me) in which Hamilton refused to get involved and pretty much waved Verstappen through.

Yes everyone can get their elbows out but when it’s Verstappen then Vettel cannot seem to help himself.
Verstappen+Vettel=Crash more often than not.

[Jolle]

That has been refuted by everybody who has worked with him, but the media loves to portray him that way, and now it is gospel.

Umm.. You're aware that we're talking about a guy who blackmailed his own team when he didn't get his way, right (preferential treatment, when he didn't deserve it) ? Nuff said.

Did Lewis not do that as well with Nico?

Enlighten us

[PlatinumZealot]

50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.

Watch the first half of 2009 or the 2011 Korean GP.