2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[i70q7m7ghw]

As for weighing: the FIA can mandate scales in every garage, so cars get automatically weighed (at continuous tiny intervals) each time they are stationery with mechanics working. That way, the FIA can simply take the last weight of the car before it leaves the garage - when fans, tyre blankets etc have been taken off.

Not going to happen, the point in it being random is catch the teams out, there are many ways the cars could shed weight on track. It's the same for everyone, Vettel was as per usual this year, cracking under pressure.

[subcritical71]

Re the weighing fiasco, what is disconcerting is the fact that Bauer, who was present, released a hasty statement that was not in fact factual. Does not give you much faith in the FIA when such a booboo can occur

I dunno - IMO what he said was accurate, especially after looking at that twitter video. Vettel wasn't fined because of breach of rules because he turned the engine off and followed the instructions. He was fined for breaking the equipment and potentially endangering the scrutineers. Even though he drove off the scales carefully and in full control they were shot backwards fairly rapidly.

The report did say that he failed to turn the engine off. I believe this is correct, AFAIK they are supposed to stop the car before the cone and then switch off the engine. Then the car is to be rolled onto the scales to prevent damage (due to wheel torque and/or car vibrations). Maybe this is what Bauer meant by failing to stop the engine(?)

[Mamba]

It's the same for everyone, Vettel was as per usual this year, cracking under pressure.

Why on earth is this an incident of Vettel cracking under pressure? Reading the BBC column of this morning? Ferrari was bold in strategy and timing was crucial. Rain was approaching and he had not yet set a lap-time and the FIA call him in. Random or not, that could have resulted in the FIA directly influencing qualifying. Luckily the outcome was not altered. There was a very realistic possibility he could have been knocked out in Q2 had the rain been more intense.

MAMBA

[jjn9128]

The report did say that he failed to turn the engine off. I believe this is correct, AFAIK they are supposed to stop the car before the cone and then switch off the engine. Then the car is to be rolled onto the scales to prevent damage (due to wheel torque and/or car vibrations). Maybe this is what Bauer meant by failing to stop the engine(?)

He did switch the engine off, because that was one of the reasons he was called to the stewards. In fact that's the reason he managed to escape a grid penalty. If he hadn't they would have been unable to weigh him - and the assumption therefore is that the car is illegal and he'd be DSQ'd.

This is Jo Bouer's report to the stewards: Technical Report Doc17 - Weighting of car number 5

And the stewards findings in full: Offence Doc22 - S.Vettel

This is the important bit, "As the driver both stopped at the FIA Garage and eventually stopped the engine, although not at the time usually expected in the established procedure, and a weight was obtained, these elements satisfy the requirements of the regulation and therefore the Stewards find no breach of this article."

Lets face it the fine is pocket money to him. I'm not sure what brand the FIA uses but it also more than covers a new set of corner scales https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/interco ... i-c170201/

[GrandAxe]

As for weighing: the FIA can mandate scales in every garage, so cars get automatically weighed (at continuous tiny intervals) each time they are stationery with mechanics working. That way, the FIA can simply take the last weight of the car before it leaves the garage - when fans, tyre blankets etc have been taken off.

Not going to happen, the point in it being random is catch the teams out, there are many ways the cars could shed weight on track. It's the same for everyone, Vettel was as per usual this year, cracking under pressure.

That's easily taken care of. If they lose weight on track, then that loss would be picked up when they next roll into the garage - scales can also be mandated at the pits.

Aside literately chucking things over the side, the only other way a car can lose weight would be to evaporate/burn fluids or solids. Neither of these methods is reversible.

[subcritical71]

The report did say that he failed to turn the engine off. I believe this is correct, AFAIK they are supposed to stop the car before the cone and then switch off the engine. Then the car is to be rolled onto the scales to prevent damage (due to wheel torque and/or car vibrations). Maybe this is what Bauer meant by failing to stop the engine(?)

He did switch the engine off, because that was one of the reasons he was called to the stewards. In fact that's the reason he managed to escape a grid penalty. If he hadn't they would have been unable to weigh him - and the assumption therefore is that the car is illegal and he'd be DSQ'd.

This is Jo Bouer's report to the stewards: Technical Report Doc17 - Weighting of car number 5

And the stewards findings in full: Offence Doc22 - S.Vettel

This is the important bit, "As the driver both stopped at the FIA Garage and eventually stopped the engine, although not at the time usually expected in the established procedure, and a weight was obtained, these elements satisfy the requirements of the regulation and therefore the Stewards find no breach of this article."

Lets face it the fine is pocket money to him. I'm not sure what brand the FIA uses but it also more than covers a new set of corner scales https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/interco ... i-c170201/

I'm not saying he's guilty of anything, I was simply confirming why Bauer chose to include the part about shutting off the car in his 'summons' report. Even in the 'Offense' report it is clear Vettel did not follow procedure. And your correct, no offense was deemed to have occurred. At no time did I say it did.

[subcritical71]

Lets face it the fine is pocket money to him. I'm not sure what brand the FIA uses but it also more than covers a new set of corner scales https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/interco ... i-c170201/

Considering he is paid roughly 3 million a race weekend, yeah, $25K is a rounding error.

[yelistener]

Cornering only has an effect when the straight isn't long. Usually if a straight is long enough to allow you to reach over 300kph, then the corner exit wouldn't have any visible effect on the top speed (unless of cause that exit was completed messed up).

Corner exit will affect when the car gets to top speed, of course. It's one reason corner exit affects lap time.

No, the car will get to the top speed it's supposed to get as long as the straight is long enough and we're talking about slight difference in the corner exit quality. This is the same case with pretty much every long straights in F1.

Affecting the lap time is a completely different subject. The effect a corner exit has on the lap time is more about the acceleration. Top speed is about reaching the maximum-downforce-level speed and the ERS deployment, which is why a small corner exit difference wouldn't affect your top speed if the straight is long enough.

[GrandAxe]

Cornering only has an effect when the straight isn't long. Usually if a straight is long enough to allow you to reach over 300kph, then the corner exit wouldn't have any visible effect on the top speed (unless of cause that exit was completed messed up).

Corner exit will affect when the car gets to top speed, of course. It's one reason corner exit affects lap time.

No, the car will get to the top speed it's supposed to get as long as the straight is long enough and we're talking about slight difference in the corner exit quality. This is the same case with pretty much every long straights in F1.

Affecting the lap time is a completely different subject. The effect a corner exit has on the lap time is more about the acceleration. Top speed is about reaching the maximum-downforce-level speed and the ERS deployment, which is why a small corner exit difference wouldn't affect your top speed if the straight is long enough.

Corner exit and entry affect top speed.

The speed/position of the car at corner exit determines how quickly and how hard a driver can get on the throttle, how much initial grip they have to lay down torque optimally (wheel spin), how much the car understeers, oversteers, dives under braking etc.

[subcritical71]

Corner exit will affect when the car gets to top speed, of course. It's one reason corner exit affects lap time.

No, the car will get to the top speed it's supposed to get as long as the straight is long enough and we're talking about slight difference in the corner exit quality. This is the same case with pretty much every long straights in F1.

Affecting the lap time is a completely different subject. The effect a corner exit has on the lap time is more about the acceleration. Top speed is about reaching the maximum-downforce-level speed and the ERS deployment, which is why a small corner exit difference wouldn't affect your top speed if the straight is long enough.

Corner exit and entry affect top speed.

The speed/position of the car at corner exit determines how quickly and how hard a driver can get on the throttle, how much initial grip they have to lay down torque optimally (wheel spin), how much the car understeers, oversteers, dives under braking etc.

What yelistener is trying to say is that given a long enough straight, top speed is not influenced by corner entry/exit, which is correct. Forget about lap time or covering a certain distance in the least amount of time. Think about if you had a 10 mile straight what the maximum (top) speed would be. As long as you get to that top speed before the 10 mile mark how you get there does not matter.

[GrandAxe]

No, the car will get to the top speed it's supposed to get as long as the straight is long enough and we're talking about slight difference in the corner exit quality. This is the same case with pretty much every long straights in F1.

Affecting the lap time is a completely different subject. The effect a corner exit has on the lap time is more about the acceleration. Top speed is about reaching the maximum-downforce-level speed and the ERS deployment, which is why a small corner exit difference wouldn't affect your top speed if the straight is long enough.

Corner exit and entry affect top speed.

The speed/position of the car at corner exit determines how quickly and how hard a driver can get on the throttle, how much initial grip they have to lay down torque optimally (wheel spin), how much the car understeers, oversteers, dives under braking etc.

What yelistener is trying to say is that given a long enough straight, top speed is not influenced by corner entry/exit, which is correct. Forget about lap time or covering a certain distance in the least amount of time. Think about if you had a 10 mile straight what the maximum (top) speed would be. As long as you get to that top speed before the 10 mile mark how you get there does not matter.

But a 10 mile (16 kilometre) straight is not applicable to F1 and definitely not to Interlagos. If we limit ourselves to F1 where the longest straights are only about 1Km long (0.8 Miles), then corner entry and exit affect top speeds.

Note that top speed is also affected by the entry/exit of corner at the end of the straight too, as the car has to have enough time to brake from top speed to make that corner. So thats corner at the beginning of the straight and corner at the end of the straight, giving the car an even shorter distance to hit top speed.

[subcritical71]

But a 10 mile (16 kilometre) straight is not applicable to F1 and definitely not to Interlagos. If we limit ourselves to F1 where the longest straights are only about 1Km long (0.8 Miles), then corner entry and exit affect top speeds.

Note that top speed is also affected by the entry/exit of corner at the end of the straight, as has to have enough time to brake from top speed to make that corner. So thats corner at the beginning of the straight and corner at the end of the straight, giving the car an even shorter distance to hit top speed.

Agree with you there, but it’s not the point he was trying to make. It was about top speed, nothing more.

[langedweil]

http://drive.google.com/uc?id=1XD0xvyP7 ... 3vtk8Sbj0E

Thanks Juzh as always for the footage.

In this graph you kinda clearly see the two-step ferrari deployement, as Vettel seems to get another (however small) boost as soon as he reaches little over 300kph ..
And indeed, the cornering speed difference pops out.
Nice info !!

Any clues about possible rain ?
I see about 50-58% chance between 15.00-17.00, possible preceptiation around 2.6mm ?
Would be fun to have some rain around 50/60%

[foxmulder_ms]

It's the same for everyone, Vettel was as per usual this year, cracking under pressure.

Why on earth is this an incident of Vettel cracking under pressure? Reading the BBC column of this morning? Ferrari was bold in strategy and timing was crucial. Rain was approaching and he had not yet set a lap-time and the FIA call him in. Random or not, that could have resulted in the FIA directly influencing qualifying. Luckily the outcome was not altered. There was a very realistic possibility he could have been knocked out in Q2 had the rain been more intense.

MAMBA

watch that twitter video again and think it was Hamilton. lol. so unfair. if it was a "little" driver like ocon, his f1 career might be over, forgot about one race penalty.

[FrukostScones]

Where is tha rain???