2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[turbof1]

Look people let's put down some ground rules: discussing, disagreeing and argueing is all fine and dandy. But it has to revolve around what happened on (and off) the track. Things like "he'll never be a champion" or "no wonder he doesn't have a seat next year" are void arguments. Such statements are more about spite. That will lead to nothing productive. Keep the reasoning you bring forward on point.

They lost their cool out there. Lets show we can do better.

The important thing from this is not the race win (which is effectively irrelevant) but whether Max will learn from this. If he doesn't then, one day when he is racing for a championship, this will happen again and it will matter. Note that, over the last couple of years, one driver in particular has known when to push and, perhaps most importantly, when to yield. Not coincidentally, that driver has won a lot of races and a lot of WDC. He gave some advice to Max today and Max ignored it

I think it's important he learns from this (and I think he will). There's a fine balance between being right and letting your claim on the race track count, and assessing the risk towards the possible benefit. Let's also not ignore the fact Hamilton is such an experienced driver who made his own mistakes years ago. Verstappen is not rookie by any means, and even rookies can become WDC's if the circumstances are there. But Verstappen still is growing. Growing means making mistakes and learning from them. Obviously when he is calmed down. Maybe tomorrow he will reflect differently on Hamilton's words.

[MtthsMlw]

https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/sta ... 03556?s=19
Not bad. It was shown as 1.9 seconds on the broadcast. Record is at 1.92, right?

[Edax]

Max thinks he is the next big thing in F1, but Leclerc has far more pluses. Gasly, Max team mate for 2019 has also consistently shown sparks of brilliance and will be no pushover.

The worst thing for Max is that he is so foolish that in such a short career, he has made so many mortal enemies up and down the driver ranks.

This will hamper him badly in any WDC campaign where other drivers might maliciously sabotage his race - think Alonso's skilful car positioning that just seems to punish Vettel more times than mere chance would allow as an example. There is no shortage sabotage candidates either; Occon (who says its a long standing thing already), Kimi, Bottas, Vettel ...

I'm going to make a bold bet that Max will either never win a WDC, or might just manage to to get one more by luck than by effort (e.g. Kimi 2007).

The guy is running a 50% podium rate for the past year, in a car that is obviously the slowest of the top three.

VES might have lost a top spot today, but truth is that he created the opportunity on his own merit. Without his agressive overtakes he would have been behind Rai for the first 40 laps (like his teammate), and Hamilton would have been too far gone to catch.

Whether he will get a championship or not I don’t know, don’t have a crystal ball.

But that was some pretty impressive driving today. To pass two Mercedes’ and two ferrari’s on reasonably fresh tires with the engine deficit that they have. I bet there are some people in the Merc/Ferrari camp hoping that Honda doesn’t come through on their power promises for next year.

[DutchDopey]

Max never thought Ocon would continue to attack... There was no reason for that whatsoever, so he just did not expect it and went for his raceline.

Then that's a failing of Max, not Ocon. Ocon was on fresh tyres, was much faster than Max (at that point in the race) and is involved in his own battles with the rest of the midfield so needed to make the most of that fresh rubber. Max needs to remember that just because most of the drivers aren't driving for Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull doesn't mean they aren't racing.

You really think Ocon could have stayed in front of Max,how would that ever be possible. If Ocon would have made it before Max in this corner, more blue flags would have been needed. So how, when,what... I really don’t see any reason other than to hinder Max for his action, there is none. Ocon would have to give up his place just a few corners later, if it wasn’t the next.

[foxmulder_ms]

Ocon's penalty was unjust. Drivers can unlap and there was nothing he did wrong, he was inside, along Vestappen. Where is the one car space?

[Sierra117]

Here's a fun game - imagine if the places were swapped and it was Max unlapping himself. Queue the "I saw a gap and went for it".

Both were at fault, Ocon should've done what Bottas did with Ric few laps later, but in-terms of critical thinking and risk management, the image changes dramatically.

Anyway, Bottas had a great start at the grid, no? Launched off really quick. Shame he had a much more used power plant than everyone around. Vandoorne did well, nice to see him do so.

Loved the celebratory shirt colours down at Merc during the celebrations.

@Edax: Mercs were running older and turned down engines, especially Bottas. Vettel had sensor issues and bad setup.

@DutchDopey: The point is not to stay in front of Max for position's sake, it's to get ahead of a clearly and admittedly cruising Max so that Ocon doesn't shred his BRAND NEW tyres behind him. For the few laps behind Max, Ocon was clearly faster, that is why he asked permission to unlap himself from the pit. It makes no sense to waste your brand new set behind someone to whom it makes no difference if Ocon was ahead or not, since they were not racing each other. Few laps later Max would overtake him as tyres would go and it would be like normal. That way Ocon gets to take advantage of his new tyres versus the actual competition in the midfield; staying behind Max, he'd lose that time and thus waste the tyres.

[turbof1]

So Verstappen has to do 2 days of public service. I think that seems like a good action against his behaviour. Putting a positive twist to the story atleast.

[Sieper]

Look people let's put down some ground rules: discussing, disagreeing and argueing is all fine and dandy. But it has to revolve around what happened on (and off) the track. Things like "he'll never be a champion" or "no wonder he doesn't have a seat next year" are void arguments. Such statements are more about spite. That will lead to nothing productive. Keep the reasoning you bring forward on point.

They lost their cool out there. Lets show we can do better.

The important thing from this is not the race win (which is effectively irrelevant) but whether Max will learn from this. If he doesn't then, one day when he is racing for a championship, this will happen again and it will matter. Note that, over the last couple of years, one driver in particular has known when to push and, perhaps most importantly, when to yield. Not coincidentally, that driver has won a lot of races and a lot of WDC. He gave some advice to Max today and Max ignored it

I think it's important he learns from this (and I think he will). There's a fine balance between being right and letting your claim on the race track count, and assessing the risk towards the possible benefit. Let's also not ignore the fact Hamilton is such an experienced driver who made his own mistakes years ago. Verstappen is not rookie by any means, and even rookies can become WDC's if the circumstances are there. But Verstappen still is growing. Growing means making mistakes and learning from them. Obviously when he is calmed down. Maybe tomorrow he will reflect differently on Hamilton's words.

And also, I would like to add, at race start Max overtook Kimi, but then he was maybe a bit too carefull with Vettel, in Any case, he had a small traction moment in turn 2 I think it was and Kimi with the Ferrari power on the first straight came passed, Max purposely let him through, gave good room for that whilst earlier he would have defended for Dear life. So he learned from that already. And then, when the moment came he could attack Hamilton, he was so carefull to wait for the right time, then when Hamilton came in traffic Max closed and made sure he got the exit he needed up on to the straight. He learned from Bahrein and China.

I agree with Hamilton that maybe he should have seen ocons move comming and just give him the extra room. Then new blue flags would have come.

[apexcontrol]

Ocon's penalty was unjust. Drivers can unlap and there was nothing he did wrong, he was inside, along Vestappen. Where is the one car space?

Come one there is no way this was correct, but i don't mind that.
Still again the race was made by Verstappen alone.

There is no other driver on the grid that just like to drive and does not care about media.

What a good racing spirit, and that's what F1 needs. F1 driver does not need to be the next gandhi or bieber. An F1 driver need to fight and do stuff others cant on track

[Sieper]

Max never thought Ocon would continue to attack... There was no reason for that whatsoever, so he just did not expect it and went for his raceline.

Then that's a failing of Max, not Ocon. Ocon was on fresh tyres, was much faster than Max (at that point in the race) and is involved in his own battles with the rest of the midfield so needed to make the most of that fresh rubber. Max needs to remember that just because most of the drivers aren't driving for Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull doesn't mean they aren't racing.

You really think Ocon could have stayed in front of Max,how would that ever be possible. If Ocon would have made it before Max in this corner, more blue flags would have been needed. So how, when,what... I really don’t see any reason other than to hinder Max for his action, there is none. Ocon would have to give up his place just a few corners later, if it wasn’t the next.

Of course, next came sector 2 where to RBR was fastest of all. Ocon wanted to do this.

[sosic2121]

Promising pace from RBR, i think Ricciardo is really starting to question his move to Renault by now

Renault will be much stronger car next year.

It's more likely Horner is thinking about which driver is leaving

[NathanOlder]

https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/sta ... 03556?s=19
Not bad. It was shown as 1.9 seconds on the broadcast. Record is at 1.92, right?

The lengths Ferrari go to , to get Seb in front of Kimi

Seriously though, very impressive

[GrandAxe]

Max thinks he is the next big thing in F1, but Leclerc has far more pluses. Gasly, Max team mate for 2019 has also consistently shown sparks of brilliance and will be no pushover.

The worst thing for Max is that he is so foolish that in such a short career, he has made so many mortal enemies up and down the driver ranks.

This will hamper him badly in any WDC campaign where other drivers might maliciously sabotage his race - think Alonso's skilful car positioning that just seems to punish Vettel more times than mere chance would allow as an example. There is no shortage sabotage candidates either; Occon (who says its a long standing thing already), Kimi, Bottas, Vettel ...

I'm going to make a bold bet that Max will either never win a WDC, or might just manage to to get one more by luck than by effort (e.g. Kimi 2007).

The guy is running a 50% podium rate for the past year, in a car that is obviously the slowest of the top three.

VES might have lost a top spot today, but truth is that he created the opportunity on his own merit. Without his agressive overtakes he would have been behind Rai for the first 40 laps (like his teammate), and Hamilton would have been too far gone to catch.

Whether he will get a championship or not I don’t know, don’t have a crystal ball.

But that was some pretty impressive driving today. To pass two Mercedes’ and two ferrari’s on reasonably fresh tires with the engine deficit that they have. I bet there are some people in the Merc/Ferrari camp hoping that Honda doesn’t come through on their power promises for next year.

Max could only pass the Mercs because their race wasn't with him. It was a whole different ball game when Kimi and Vettel lined up behind Bottas though, that's because Merc were racing Ferrari with the WCC at stake.

You can bet that Max wouldn't have had such easy overtakes if he had been in the WDC or WCC battles.

The above concerns today's race only. The incident with Occon is more telling about the future.
Max has already made mistakes and created roadblocks out of other drivers that will likely swamp and frustrate his obvious talent in the future.

His attitude means he is plotting a self defeating course like Alonso - driver who should not just be up there in number of WDC's with Lewis and Vettel, but is running around as a back marker when he should be sitting in the Ferrari instead of Vettel.

[dans79]

So Verstappen has to do 2 days of public service. I think that seems like a good action against his behaviour. Putting a positive twist to the story atleast.

2 days is ridiculous, it should be more like 2 weeks. One of these days Max is going to mess with the wrong person, and it's going to cost him dearly! Max's actions on and off the track are signs of underlying issues that are only going to get worse, and not everyone on this planet is bound by the rules of a sport governing body.

[NathanOlder]

Max never thought Ocon would continue to attack... There was no reason for that whatsoever, so he just did not expect it and went for his raceline.

Then that's a failing of Max, not Ocon. Ocon was on fresh tyres, was much faster than Max (at that point in the race) and is involved in his own battles with the rest of the midfield so needed to make the most of that fresh rubber. Max needs to remember that just because most of the drivers aren't driving for Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull doesn't mean they aren't racing.

You really think Ocon could have stayed in front of Max,how would that ever be possible. If Ocon would have made it before Max in this corner, more blue flags would have been needed. So how, when,what... I really don’t see any reason other than to hinder Max for his action, there is none. Ocon would have to give up his place just a few corners later, if it wasn’t the next.

Max was driving to look after his tyres. Ocon was on SOFTER and NEWER tyres and was pushing hard to climb up the order. He would have been faster than Max for sure. The lap before the contact Ocon was FASTER than Max.