2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[NathanOlder]

All Ocon needed to do in the weigh in room was say

"Put me in the same car as you, and see what happens you little ####"

[dans79]

Can anyone validate these statements? if true they explain a lot.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/12/why ... ving-ocon/

But he comes from a background with a troubling reputation for violence. In 2000 Max’s father Jos, while still an F1 driver, was found guilty of fracturing a 45-year-old man’s skull in a fight at a kart track two years earlier. He avoided a prison sentence after an out-of-court settlement was reached.

This was not a one-off. In 2008 the elder Verstappen received another suspended jail sentence when he breached a restraining order against former wife Sophie Kumpen – Max’s mother – when he was found to have send her threatening messages. He had another brush with the law following an alleged assault of a former girlfriend in 2012. Just last year he was arrested again following a fight at a beach club.

[turbof1]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

[strad]

Look where Ocon contacts Max and it shows that Max was the one ahead by almost a whole car length. And since when does 16th battle with the leader for any reason?
Y'all seem to think Max should have just let Ocon go. I say just the opposite. Why didn't Ocon let Max go then get on with his race?
Max had a huge overlap on Ocon and no one would expect him to try to dive for the inside. No race driver would expect Ocon to try that.

[dans79]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

That's now what I mean!

A substantial number of children who grow up in a violent environment, become violent themselves as they age. Many studies have shown this, and i have witnessed it first hand (on several occasions), as at one point in my life I went to a school that had a lot of poor kids who had bad home lives.

[zeph]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

Yet the Bible is rife with people being cursed for seven generations. And in the words of someone disinguished whose name I can't remember: “children never do as their parents say, but they never fail to do as they do”

[notsofast]

With all that emphasis on safety, clearly there's a better solution here. A driver wanting to unlap himself should be required to let the teams handle it via the radio. There's no need to attack the lead car going into a set of tight corners. Of all the preventable collisions, this one would be a no-brainer. Apparently Force India and Red Bull were sitting next to each other on the pitwall.

[Sieper]

https://i.imgur.com/EJZr2Iu.jpg
Verstappen knew there was a car beside him, yet he goes so close to the apex that he nearly touches the white line.
What did he think was gonna happen?

I don’t think Verstappen ever expected him to be there. If you are wheel to wheel you can tough it out together in that corner, but that usually requires some wheel banging and copious amount of curb. If you are only partially aside you lift and slot in behind for the next straight, you don’t hang around.

The rule says you have to give each other space. The rules do not say you are allowed to stick your nose into any closing gap and expect the other to see you and yield.

Ocon’s second move would have been penalised if it was for a position. Just look at Stroll vs Alonso. Even though there was a car next to Alonso he could have easily given more space, if he knew Stroll was there. But the point is Stroll should not have put himself in this position, nor should Alonso be required to anticipate on someone being there.

That is why Stroll got a drive-through for “causing a collision” and so did Ocon. The fact that it was an unlapping maneuvre, only makes it more incomprehensible to understand what was going through Ocon’s brain.

https://formularapida.net/wp-content/up ... onso-1.jpg

Finally, Some sense and something actually on topic, the Brazil 2018 race.

[turbof1]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

That's now what I mean!

A substantial number of children who grow up in a violent environment, become violent themselves as they age. Many studies have shown this, and i have witnessed it first hand (on several occasions), as at one point in my life I went to a school that had a lot of poor kids who had bad home lives.

It's prejudging to just assume it. What Jos Verstappen did was terrible, and I honestly believe Jos Verstappen is among the lowest of humanity. However, that does not give us the right to project that onto his son just like that. Persons can become entirely different people than their own parents. Maybe you are also forgetting he actually has a good and caring mother.

In any case, I think I was clear before Jos Verstappen does not have anything to do with the race weekend. He was not even there. We are neither a parental coaching site.

[DiogoBrand]

https://i.imgur.com/EJZr2Iu.jpg
Verstappen knew there was a car beside him, yet he goes so close to the apex that he nearly touches the white line.
What did he think was gonna happen?

I don’t think Verstappen ever expected him to be there. If you are wheel to wheel you can tough it out together in that corner, but that usually requires some wheel banging and copious amount of curb. If you are only partially aside you lift and slot in behind for the next straight, you don’t hang around.

The rule says you have to give each other space. The rules do not say you are allowed to stick your nose into any closing gap and expect the other to see you and yield.

Ocon’s second move would have been penalised if it was for a position. Just look at Stroll vs Alonso. Even though there was a car next to Alonso he could have easily given more space, if he knew Stroll was there. But the point is Stroll should not have put himself in this position, nor should Alonso be required to anticipate on someone being there.

That is why Stroll got a drive-through for “causing a collision” and so did Ocon. The fact that it was an unlapping maneuvre, only makes it more incomprehensible to understand what was going through Ocon’s brain.

https://formularapida.net/wp-content/up ... onso-1.jpg

But all the way after the braking zone, Ocon was beside Max. It's not like Max was in front and Ocon stuck his nose there, he never left Max's side after the braking zone.

[GrandAxe]

Can anyone validate these statements? if true they explain a lot.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/12/why ... ving-ocon/

But he comes from a background with a troubling reputation for violence. In 2000 Max’s father Jos, while still an F1 driver, was found guilty of fracturing a 45-year-old man’s skull in a fight at a kart track two years earlier. He avoided a prison sentence after an out-of-court settlement was reached.

This was not a one-off. In 2008 the elder Verstappen received another suspended jail sentence when he breached a restraining order against former wife Sophie Kumpen – Max’s mother – when he was found to have send her threatening messages. He had another brush with the law following an alleged assault of a former girlfriend in 2012. Just last year he was arrested again following a fight at a beach club.

There's possibly something in this.

[bonjon1979]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree

[turbof1]

The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree

Well let's get the most obvious ones out of the way:
-Like father like son
-the boy is the father of the man
-success has many fathers, failure is an orphan
-experience is the father of wisdom
-old enough to be (one's) father

Anyone else hell bent on father idioms?

[dans79]

Anyone else hell bent on father idioms?[/i]

You seem to be taking this semi personally Turbo.

[Phil]

The Redbull was about 1s faster on average. Ocon would not keep up for more than a handfull of laps. The wake of the Force India would compromise Verstappens aero/race. He would be smarter to let Ocon some room, than go sidebyside to the 2nd straight and push him outward in the double left.

How is this relevant? The only relevant point was, that at that point Ocon was faster. It's the same if you'd compare two cars A and B, one on a two stop race, the other on a one. Both cars finish the race at the same time, but one car will be doing significantly faster lap times and its strategy relies on 'getting through traffic'. It's not that dissimilar to races before 2010 when teams could opt to drive with more fuel (less stops) vs ulterior strategy on less fuel but then getting by traffic to make the strategy work.

Ocon came out, he was at that point faster than Max and he was following Max for almost 2 full laps (his out-lap and another full lap). On his outlap, he had 'a look' on the insight and was showing Max that he was faster and was being held up. On this lap, he also consulted with his team if it was ok to unlap himself.

The only sane thing to do would have been the team to inform Max that there was a quicker lapped car behind and that he should let him by. If Ocon had lost his pace 5 laps down the road, so what? He would have received blue flags and Max would have repassed, as simple as that.

Fact is; there is no rule that disallows cars unlapping themselves. The only idiotic thing about it, was that the actual leader of the race felt he had to defend his position vs a car 1 lap down, despite the fact that there was no threat from behind (unless you think a Mercedes on very old mediums needing to get to the end would be any threat to the RB on better tires and a shorter stint - in other words, no).

If you ask me; I think it was clear Max wasn't aware that cars were allowed to unlap themselves and once he realised this post race, he changed his defence to that 'you have to take caution'. hum yes Max, caution... then why did you make it so difficult for him to pass you in the first place?