2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

[TwanV]

I will repeat again, no other driver bar Hamilton and of course Ocon himself agree with any of the arguments made here by armchair (un)-officials for 49 pages now.

Another POV from a former driver, this time Jolyon Palmer: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46188703

[TAG]

Five double double championships in a row, history being made, enjoy the moment. Peace in the middle east.

[Just_a_fan]

I will repeat again, no other driver bar Hamilton and of course Ocon himself agree with any of the arguments made here by armchair (un)-officials for 49 pages now.

Another POV from a former driver, this time Jolyon Palmer: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46188703

I'll take the views of the most successful F1 driver of his generation over a guy who couldn't drive a greased stick up a dog's backside...

[Manoah2u]

You're right. That only leaves the more general question: why DRS for a lapped to unlap himself.

Why do cars receive DRS on cars that have been lapped?

Probably because all cars create wake and that also hampers lapped cars.
But i must say, it is an 'unfair' advantage, just as much as front runners essentially get an 'unfair' advantage
from cars they lap.

would be worth investigating to program the cars as such that they cannot get DRS from cars that are not in the same lap as they are.

[Phil]

I really don't know why the opinions of others should stop us having a reasonable debate though. There'll always be opposing views. Using other's peoples opinion just feels like some are desperately trying to give more weight to their own opinions rather than arguing the points discussed.

In the end, even if Ocon is in the wrong (lets assume he is), the simple fact is Max could have easily avoided it by simply giving more room and not driving with the same sense of entitlement with zero tolerance like he always does. Some learn it the hard way, some don't learn it at all. Even if Ocon got a 10s stop&go penalty... between him and Max, who lost more?

I would have been extremely impressed by Max (and his followers) if he had come out after the race and immediately put up his hand and said "it was silly to fight Ocon for position, I wasn't looking at the long game". But continuing to point his finger at the other guy, whinging about how unjust it was that his win was taken and refusing to see what he himself could have done differently shows his arrogance and entitlement and unfortunately will only encourage him to repeat these avoidable mistakes. Good luck with winning a championship with that attitude...

[TwanV]

I will repeat again, no other driver bar Hamilton and of course Ocon himself agree with any of the arguments made here by armchair (un)-officials for 49 pages now.

Another POV from a former driver, this time Jolyon Palmer: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46188703

I'll take the views of the most successful F1 driver of his generation over a guy who couldn't drive a greased stick up a dog's backside...

Meh, same could be said about anyone here, except he made it to F1.

He has a point though, Ocon probably wouldn't do the same with Hamilton, particularly because he plays the wingman game as we saw in Monaco. And they work together for the same employee. And Hamilton and Verstappen are actually (if all goes well for RB next year) going to be rivals. So I don't read too much into Hamilton's comments. that 5 times world championship argument is getting old already by the way.. I mean, he does say some dumb things often, like accusing Ferrari of tricks etc.

[GrandAxe]

This is still going on? Wow! Why?
Anyway, lets add my tuppence to keep the ball rolling downhill, nice and smooth, all oiled :

The only thing Max has succeeded in doing is illustrating (rather vividly) that racing needs some IQ and common sense.

In any future WDC contest, be sure that the man will be opened up like a tin can by the opposing team with a lot of ease. One or two off track "events" might be set up to turn his mind into a nicely jumbled mess; that's all before his on track opponents (they are many and growing) hold their little "friendly chats" that somehow translate into how they tackle Max on track.

Talent or not, all the above shows that Max is already throwing away his future. He should have a private heart to heart with a certain fellow called Alonso who should have been in a Ferrari this year and last, but somehow managed to toil around as a back marker with "entertaining radio messages" instead.

A life with neither IQ nor common sense is a hard life indeed. Let's hope Max takes his lessons to heart quite early.

[Just_a_fan]

I really don't know why the opinions of others should stop us having a reasonable debate though. There'll always be opposing views.

[...stuff removed only to avoid overquoting and cluttering the thread…]

Good luck with winning a championship with that attitude...

Well said Phil. Max only has himself to blame - if he'd been the guy he thinks he is, he'd have let Ocon play his unlapping game and just got on with his own race. That he decided to force the issue and try to close Ocon out is what caused the collision, not Ocon's unlapping.

And as you say, good luck winning a season-long battle with his attitude.

[TwanV]

I would have been extremely impressed by Max (and his followers) if he had come out after the race and immediately put up his hand and said "it was silly to fight Ocon for position, I wasn't looking at the long game". But continuing to point his finger at the other guy, whinging about how unjust it was that his win was taken and refusing to see what he himself could have done differently shows his arrogance and entitlement and unfortunately will only encourage him to repeat these avoidable mistakes. Good luck with winning a championship with that attitude...

Phil, I don't know what's happened to you as you were very balanced all in all but it seems you've entrenched yourself in your stance on this (and maybe the drivers in question on the whole?). What you're saying here makes absolutely no sense to me as you make some categorical statement on somebody's worth and don't take into account the opposite view.

EDIT: the same goes for myself of course, the big difference here is how you think about lapped cars. Camp A says they should be treated equal to a race leader in the amount of risk they are permitted to take, Camp B says otherwise. Let's leave it at that then.

[Just_a_fan]

He has a point though, Ocon probably wouldn't do the same with Hamilton, particularly because he plays the wingman game as we saw in Monaco. And they work together for the same employee. And Hamilton and Verstappen are actually (if all goes well for RB next year) going to be rivals. So I don't read to much into Hamilton's comments. that 5 times world championship argument is getting old already by the way.. I mean, he does say some dumb things often, like accusing Ferrari of tricks etc.

Still peddling the tin foil hat stuff, eh? Was Flavio seen behind the grassy knoll with a remote control for Ocon's car?

[Just_a_fan]

This is still going on? Wow! Why?
Anyway, lets add my tuppence to keep the ball rolling downhill, nice and smooth, all oiled :

That's the spirit! With a bit of effort this thread can keep people occupied for the whole off-season period. It'll help keep the rest of the site clean of arguments too.

[Big Tea]

Leaving aside all the your fault, no its yours, arguments, I can deduce from this that Max does not ride a motorcycle.
He had no need to cut the corner so close if it was his right of way or not, and he was in a race winning position.
Forget the rule of who has the right, it is dependent on who is going to force an accident and who is going to continue the race in the lead and re pass at leisure later.

Had he said, you *** that was my line, and moved over he would have won that race without an accident. Does he want 'right' or win?

[TwanV]

He has a point though, Ocon probably wouldn't do the same with Hamilton, particularly because he plays the wingman game as we saw in Monaco. And they work together for the same employee. And Hamilton and Verstappen are actually (if all goes well for RB next year) going to be rivals. So I don't read to much into Hamilton's comments. that 5 times world championship argument is getting old already by the way.. I mean, he does say some dumb things often, like accusing Ferrari of tricks etc.

Still peddling the tin foil hat stuff, eh? Was Flavio seen behind the grassy knoll with a remote control for Ocon's car?

rewatch Monaco then, you'll know why people assume these things. Toto basically admitted this stuff is part of this guy's contract. https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/1548 ... in-monaco/

So, they do, in race, order Ocon to do things. clear.

[Just_a_fan]

So you think Toto ordered Ocon to crash in to Max?

Oh look, here comes Flavio after all. Hi Flavio!

[TwanV]

So you think Toto ordered Ocon to crash in to Max?

Oh look, here comes Flavio after all. Hi Flavio!

No I didn't say that. You challenge me with this tin foil hat stuff. I said that he would be told to leave Hamilton alone. Lets hope it stays with that, because anything else is foul play. But let's be clear: What this says is that Mercedes doesn't give a damn about anyone, they want to win at all cost, regardless of the show or some sense of fair play.