2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

[paulo_f1]

Well, it's pretty clear they're not going to pull a Brawn, so that ridiculous vain hope is gone.

This car is firmly anchored off the back of the grid, and that's with a Mercedes engine. What's worrying is just how far Williams are behind everyone else not just in terms of the car, but in everything else. They have a good wind tunnel, good facilities and a number of personnel that a team like Racing Point would dearly love. Despite the various excuses this team still have good resources that should not put them in this position.

Put simply, this is a team that cannot survive in Formula 1 for very much longer.

Why?

[TwanV]

because munudeges is always right, don't try to tell him otherwise.

[paulo_f1]

I'll repeat. this team won't make abu dhabi.

On what basis do your draw that conclusion?

Bias, I’d say. I can’t think under what circumstances Williams would not see out the season. Even Lotus finished the season when it was failing to pay drivers and suppliers, and that team was in far worse shape than Williams, which is pretty financially stable. Force India likewise seemed to have been heavily in debt or at least with cashflow problems leading to the creditors calling the administrators in - which they only did in the knowledge that there was a buyer waiting in the wings. Williams is just not comparable. Teams just don’t fold during a season on the basis of poor on-track performance, especially if their finances are sound, which Williams’ are. Claire has said that the team has a similar operating budget to last year (which means they must have increased sponsorship income to cover the shortfall in constructors’ payments). The team is clearly not in the same kind of trouble it was this time last year, even if it is still last at the moment. (And it’s worth remembering that Sauber was last in Melbourne last year and look where they ended up). I’m a bit mystified by this prediction.

I miss Sergey Sirotkin, though.

Plus, the naysayers seem to be basing this all on the fact that the car was late and seems slow, which has nothing to do with commercial situation. Unless they did a Brawn and had found some sort of loophole, they were always going to be playing catch up. They are behind on track time, development, testing etc. The chances are they would be last or near the back come Melbourne.

The team they are singing the praises of, Force India, turned up with their new car at the 3rd test in 2015 due to delays. They were slowest other than McLaren in Melbourne, but went on to add performance and ended up fifth in the championship.

It could be completely different for Williams this year, but as a minimum, what they need is a stable car that is balanced and works predictably, correlating with their data/simulations. They can then build on this adding downforce and performance consistently and successfully.

Those that think a chaotic firing/hiring and knee jerk reactionary technical management setup will help the way forward have no clue how F1 works...

[Manoah2u]

I'll repeat. this team won't make abu dhabi.

On what basis do your draw that conclusion?

Bias, I’d say.

bias?

I've been favouring williams back in the days when mansell, senna, hill, villeneuve and montoya were driving there.
i'd be the first to see williams in a better position.

I can’t think under what circumstances Williams would not see out the season. Even Lotus finished the season when it was failing to pay drivers and suppliers, and that team was in far worse shape than Williams, which is pretty financially stable.

wrong. perhaps go back through the pages and see the links and quote's ive posted, instead of being ignorant.

Force India likewise seemed to have been heavily in debt or at least with cashflow problems leading to the creditors calling the administrators in - which they only did in the knowledge that there was a buyer waiting in the wings. Williams is just not comparable.

williams is comparable as multiple other people have noted too except you.

Teams just don’t fold during a season on the basis of poor on-track performance

you clearly have no view of f1 history.

, especially if their finances are sound, which Williams’ are.

they literally aren't.

Claire has said that the team has a similar operating budget to last year (which means they must have increased sponsorship income to cover the shortfall in constructors’ payments). The team is clearly not in the same kind of trouble it was this time last year, even if it is still last at the moment. (And it’s worth remembering that Sauber was last in Melbourne last year and look where they ended up). I’m a bit mystified by this prediction.

because you have no idea what you're talking about.

I miss Sergey Sirotkin, though.

[Manoah2u]

Funny how claire is now stating they can make up lost time because the car is reliable.

what a bunch of nonsense, the Mercedes engine is the most reliable one on the grid, and reliability hasn't been an issue for quite some time for Williams. Also, reliability doesn't mean a thing being 3 seconds slower than any other car on the grid.they'll still finish last, and it's not like it's the 70's or the 80's where half the field breaks down.

Pretty simple argument really. Some teams are breaking down and losing a time that they could be running. Williams is not, so they are making back some of what they lost last week against those teams. Not difficult point to understand.

Could it not be argued that the reason for them not breaking down is how slow they have been running while the other teams got set up and on there way quickly able to actually push the car to limits Williams haven't done that yet and don't have the time to do it before the first race of the season

this.

[Manoah2u]

https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/stat ... 8127672320

lol, like that is gonna change team morale. that's media damage control, nothing more.

[Manoah2u]

Well, it's pretty clear they're not going to pull a Brawn, so that ridiculous vain hope is gone.

This car is firmly anchored off the back of the grid, and that's with a Mercedes engine. What's worrying is just how far Williams are behind everyone else not just in terms of the car, but in everything else. They have a good wind tunnel, good facilities and a number of personnel that a team like Racing Point would dearly love. Despite the various excuses this team still have good resources that should not put them in this position.

Put simply, this is a team that cannot survive in Formula 1 for very much longer.

thank you, another one who understands it.

as for the people that can't understand that being highly critical doesn't equal against a team.

i'd love to see williams in better shape. but with claire at the helm, that won't happen.
any ceo or manager in any business as it has been run in the past with williams would have been kicked out long ago. the only reason claire isn't is that it's the classic family ties toxic environment.

what i fail to understand is that people can't take critisism. bad things should be able to be named, not brushed off because it's one's 'favourite team'.

[paulo_f1]

Well, it's pretty clear they're not going to pull a Brawn, so that ridiculous vain hope is gone.

This car is firmly anchored off the back of the grid, and that's with a Mercedes engine. What's worrying is just how far Williams are behind everyone else not just in terms of the car, but in everything else. They have a good wind tunnel, good facilities and a number of personnel that a team like Racing Point would dearly love. Despite the various excuses this team still have good resources that should not put them in this position.

Put simply, this is a team that cannot survive in Formula 1 for very much longer.

thank you, another one who understands it.

as for the people that can't understand that being highly critical doesn't equal against a team.

i'd love to see williams in better shape. but with claire at the helm, that won't happen.
any ceo or manager in any business as it has been run in the past with williams would have been kicked out long ago. the only reason claire isn't is that it's the classic family ties toxic environment.

what i fail to understand is that people can't take critisism. bad things should be able to be named, not brushed off because it's one's 'favourite team'.

Your criticism is laughable though, this is a team with a relatively new TD, who restructured last year, almost certainly too late to improve this years situation. The rest is all conjecture and speculation on your part, yet again with no basis in fact, or industry/inside knowledge.

You've no idea what's going on and the team aren't saying, plus a woman is in charge, those two gripes seems to be your major problem. Detail your suggested way forward and some potential solutions instead of posting utter drivel...

[Manoah2u]

Well, it's pretty clear they're not going to pull a Brawn, so that ridiculous vain hope is gone.

This car is firmly anchored off the back of the grid, and that's with a Mercedes engine. What's worrying is just how far Williams are behind everyone else not just in terms of the car, but in everything else. They have a good wind tunnel, good facilities and a number of personnel that a team like Racing Point would dearly love. Despite the various excuses this team still have good resources that should not put them in this position.

Put simply, this is a team that cannot survive in Formula 1 for very much longer.

thank you, another one who understands it.

as for the people that can't understand that being highly critical doesn't equal against a team.

i'd love to see williams in better shape. but with claire at the helm, that won't happen.
any ceo or manager in any business as it has been run in the past with williams would have been kicked out long ago. the only reason claire isn't is that it's the classic family ties toxic environment.

what i fail to understand is that people can't take critisism. bad things should be able to be named, not brushed off because it's one's 'favourite team'.

Your criticism is laughable though, this is a team with a relatively new TD, who restructured last year, almost certainly too late to improve this years situation. The rest is all conjecture and speculation on your part, yet again with no basis in fact, or industry/inside knowledge.

You've no idea what's going on and the team aren't saying, plus a woman is in charge, those two gripes seems to be your major problem. Detail your suggested way forward and some potential solutions instead of posting utter drivel...

again. go back a page or 2, read some links, go visit motorsport.com, read some articles, some statements about that very TD, and then come back informed instead of being what you are. uninformed.

[munudeges]

Why?

Wow. I suppose that one word question and this thread is a reflection of the denial there is at Williams. Claire Williams thinks that if she gives an interview with the usual fighting talk it will all magically come good. Her father did it for years before her, which is why I don't entirely blame her. Frank is as much to blame.

If you look at Williams and the facilities they still have, the number of personnel, factory and their wind tunnel and compare them to other teams in front of them, it's night and day. Ditto McLaren and the position they are in, and have been. McLaren had to ditch Honda not because they saw no future necessarily, but because they needed to score championship points to survive as a team. They had to have a known quantity in the back of the car and could no longer afford to gamble. Williams is in the same position, except they have a Mercedes........... In order to survive this team must score points. As things stand, it cannot.

[munudeges]

because munudeges is always right, don't try to tell him otherwise.

Correction, the stopwatch is always right. It's rather inconvenient that, isn't it?

[paulo_f1]

thank you, another one who understands it.

as for the people that can't understand that being highly critical doesn't equal against a team.

i'd love to see williams in better shape. but with claire at the helm, that won't happen.
any ceo or manager in any business as it has been run in the past with williams would have been kicked out long ago. the only reason claire isn't is that it's the classic family ties toxic environment.

what i fail to understand is that people can't take critisism. bad things should be able to be named, not brushed off because it's one's 'favourite team'.

Your criticism is laughable though, this is a team with a relatively new TD, who restructured last year, almost certainly too late to improve this years situation. The rest is all conjecture and speculation on your part, yet again with no basis in fact, or industry/inside knowledge.

You've no idea what's going on and the team aren't saying, plus a woman is in charge, those two gripes seems to be your major problem. Detail your suggested way forward and some potential solutions instead of posting utter drivel...

again. go back a page or 2, read some links, go visit motorsport.com, read some articles, some statements about that very TD, and then come back informed instead of being what you are. uninformed.

I've read them, nothing of substance unless you'd like to share this startling revelation about the TD that I've missed, certainly nothing on Autospsort/Motorsport/Amus that I'd consider a worthwhile source, if you're referring to the Racefans comedy article then I rest my case...

I like the way you've proved your point though, by just criticising someone else instead of actually making one, have a biscuit.

You don’t half spout simplistic claptrap… grow up

[garygph]

https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/stat ... 8127672320

lol, like that is gonna change team morale. that's media damage control, nothing more.

Manoah2u I think we are all very well aware of your feelings and thoughts about the state of affairs at Williams and seemingly Clare in particular but please give it a rest now. You are obviously quite entitled to give your view the same as everyone but it has become, to me, the same as watching someone hammering a nail into a piece of wood and then continuing to hammer the same nail even though it is well and truly nailed flush in!

I enjoy a lot of your posts and learn from you but, to me, these other posts are becoming OTT.

Maybe you will find this post to you OTT but it is genuinely meant as a friendly request.

[munudeges]

Your criticism is laughable though, this is a team with a relatively new TD, who restructured last year....

That new TD (and the restructuring) has put them firmly and squarely at the back of the grid when they were still in a dire position, and by some margin as well.

You can slice and dice this as much as you want but there is no way of dressing this up.

[paulo_f1]

Your criticism is laughable though, this is a team with a relatively new TD, who restructured last year....

That new TD (and the restructuring) has put them firmly and squarely at the back of the grid when they were still in a dire position, and by some margin as well.

You can slice and dice this as much as you want but there is no way of dressing this up.

That's the first thing you've said that makes sense! It is also my entire point and you've just made it!

It was always going to be a year like this, I said so in my other posts above. The same thing happened at Honda/Brawn in 2007 into 2008, building for 2009. There is no way Williams would catch up this year, their restructuring was too late, potentially making things worse before they got better.

This is a building process for next year, or more realistically the big 2021 rule changes. This year is about having a stable platform both internally and with the car to build on the CFD/simulation work and bring real performance to this years car. If the team make progress and catch up with aero improvements that work, then the rebuild process will be working and a job well done.

Now you may well be right and this year may be a total disaster and next years car a dog too, but at this stage we don't know and can't know that. All we can do is look to recent history and see that the same type of restructuring timelines occurred when Todt went to Ferrari, Honda/Brawn we've covered, the same thing happened after they downsized and became Mercedes, when Newey went to Red Bull it took several years and a major rule change to hit the front.

Maybe we can come back to this in 6 and 18 months time, only then can you really judge Paddy Lowe's work...