2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges
munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Words absolutely fail me. I can only assume this is the contribution of the HR department who think this is a great idea.

paulo_f1
paulo_f1
5
Joined: 15 Oct 2015, 15:34

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 14:09
paulo_f1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 12:39
Why?
Wow. I suppose that one word question and this thread is a reflection of the denial there is at Williams. Claire Williams thinks that if she gives an interview with the usual fighting talk it will all magically come good. Her father did it for years before her, which is why I don't entirely blame her. Frank is as much to blame.

If you look at Williams and the facilities they still have, the number of personnel, factory and their wind tunnel and compare them to other teams in front of them, it's night and day. Ditto McLaren and the position they are in, and have been. McLaren had to ditch Honda not because they saw no future necessarily, but because they needed to score championship points to survive as a team. They had to have a known quantity in the back of the car and could no longer afford to gamble. Williams is in the same position, except they have a Mercedes........... In order to survive this team must score points. As things stand, it cannot.
No, what I meant by "why" is explain your position, as it seemed ridiculous. Not spout some claptrap on denial that is purely your opinion!

You've given it a go with your points example, however it doesn't hold water. If the teams budget is OK this year despite finishing last and long term deals have been done with Rokit, Rexona etc, as the team state, then next years budget will be similar regardless of whether they finish last again and regardless of the 2019 points situation.

This year is all about the changes and making progress, if they are 1-2 seconds behind the field, then you are right, they wont score points. If they bring constant improvement to the car and catch up with in season development, then they've effectively fixed the underlying issues. If they are all at sea again, then there is a big problem to be fixed still and another more brutal restructure, or even a sale may take place, it's unlikely they'll fold though...

munudeges
munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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paulo_f1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 14:40
That's the first thing you've said that makes sense! It is also my entire point and you've just made it!
No, it isn't. You've utterly hallucinated what you think I've said, and here's why:
It was always going to be a year like this, I said so in my other posts above.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for there to be another year worse than the last, and no reason for them to have dropped to dead last last year either. None. This is cognitive dissonance and is interestingly an accurate reflection of the mental state of the team. It's a spiral from which I see no end.
Maybe we can come back to this in 6 and 18 months time, only then can you really judge Paddy Lowe's work...
No, we judge him now and he's been in two years. The team has problems now, not in six months' or eighteen months' time. The team are going to be forced to do so in the end because they don't have that much time. They were in a dire position, ended up going backwards even from there and this year are even more adrift. You can't keep seeing a pot of utterly hypothetical and delusional gold in a few months' time.

munudeges
munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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paulo_f1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 14:54
You've given it a go with your points example, however it doesn't hold water. If the teams budget is OK this year despite finishing last and long term deals have been done with Rokit, Rexona etc, as the team state, then next years budget will be similar regardless of whether they finish last again and regardless of the 2019 points situation.
You keep consoling yourself with the claptrap that championship points and finishes don't matter to maintaining a team's finances and resources.

paulo_f1
paulo_f1
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Joined: 15 Oct 2015, 15:34

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 15:00
paulo_f1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 14:54
You've given it a go with your points example, however it doesn't hold water. If the teams budget is OK this year despite finishing last and long term deals have been done with Rokit, Rexona etc, as the team state, then next years budget will be similar regardless of whether they finish last again and regardless of the 2019 points situation.
You keep consoling yourself with the claptrap that championship points and finishes don't matter to maintaining a team's finances and resources.
Good luck to you in whatever you do, you've failed to make any cogent points or arguments! As per our previous exchanges, it's all just juvenile unsubstantiated nonsense on your part, without ever suggesting a source of information, solitary idea or constructive solution for the team.

We WILL see what happens, time and perspective are required, whatever you say. If you want to decide the fate of the season and the people at the team now, then do so. Luckily, as I told you last time, neither I, and certainly not Williams, are concerned about the vitriolic opinion of munudeges the keyboard warrior...

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turbof1
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Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Can we please stay away from making things personal? Disagreeing is fine, but don't get frustrated because the other person is not agreeing.

I removed some posts
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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turbof1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 17:12
Can we please stay away from making things personal? Disagreeing is fine, but don't get frustrated because the other person is not agreeing.

I removed some posts
it's all just juvenile unsubstantiated nonsense on your part
i sincerely hope this may be addressed similarly.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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MtthsMlw
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Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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yeah, sounds pretty reliable.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

marmer
marmer
1
Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Odd one must be gearbox or brakes all other wear parts come from mercedes don't they body work doesn't wear unless they hit stuff which they hadn't

More poor organisation if they couldn't get overnight shipping

skwdenyer
skwdenyer
13
Joined: 17 May 2010, 00:00

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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marmer wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 02:29
Odd one must be gearbox or brakes all other wear parts come from mercedes don't they body work doesn't wear unless they hit stuff which they hadn't

More poor organisation if they couldn't get overnight shipping
Components are built from carbon fibre to minimum weight against specific life targets. Everything from suspension to wings will be lifed, and only expected to last, say, a couple of races. Fatigue failure is not limited to metals.

I can quite imagine wing elements, or wing supports, running out of life and starting to lose stiffness. Similarly the underbody parts will get damaged by use, by on-track debris, as well as the above.

Given the car was rushed out of the factory late, it wouldn't be unreasonable to imagine spare parts weren't ready. That's not a new problem; it is an additional manifestation of the lateness problem. I can quite see the team concentrating on producing parts for Australia at this stage.

It may also be that parts rushed to production weren't finalised in design terms, and have degraded through simply lacking mechanical performance. Sandwich structures, especially, will suffer badly (possibly from boundary adhesion failure) if rushed and/or not properly detailed.

If what TheJudge13 reported about staff effectively "working to rule" is true, that would further limit the team's capacity to play catchup.

I don't think this is the end of the world, awkward and embarrassing though it might be.

tinvek
tinvek
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Joined: 06 Mar 2011, 13:39

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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paulo_f1 wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 14:40


This is a building process for next year, or more realistically the big 2021 rule changes. This year is about having a stable platform both internally and with the car to build on the CFD/simulation work and bring real performance to this years car. If the team make progress and catch up with aero improvements that work, then the rebuild process will be working and a job well done.

add in making sure they have a solid, reliable, known financial base for the next couple of seasons and you've pretty much summed up what is probably the best (only?) way forward for williams

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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There are many classic planes that can not fly as they have 'run out of hours'. I do not think it is a 'problem' with Williams, just something that happens
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

munudeges
munudeges
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Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I thought words failed me before. They do so again. Unbelievable tripe. Other teams must be laughing themselves into a fit.

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proteus
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 14:35

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 20:59
I thought words failed me before. They do so again. Unbelievable tripe. Other teams must be laughing themselves into a fit.
I refused to believe the situation is so critical, but aparently it really is catastrophic. I have just watched Kubica being asked about testing on the F1 site, and you can clearly see he does not want to make an eye contact directly while replying, looking into all directions during the statement, which clearly shows he is not comfortable.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows