2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[gokarter]

Not gonna comment on your random accusations but no team is using their full blown quali modes in the race since you don't wanna end up with an empty battery in the next lap and be a sitting duck. Ferrari's magic is having more energy to spend during one lap via some clever or simply very efficient MGU-H recovery.

They are still using two batteries arent they?, and they have only installed one sensor to one battery and the other is not monitored. Why did the FIA ask them to change a software last year before monaco after they investigated their engine and found something tricky, never got a penalty. Just image if this was another manufacturer, it would be the end of the manufacturer. The reality is they cheated point blank and mercedes found it out due to one individual who worked for ferrari. Look at Haas very poor in race pace but comes to light in qualifying. shame FIA does not act becuase we all know what FIA stands for. A typical example is the fine given to ferrari for unsafe release whereas max got a 5 second penalty causing him to loose crucial points. ferrari fine is like breakfast money to ferrari. Shame we fans want to see fair treatment to all teams.

[MtthsMlw]

You seem to know more than the FIA, you should work for them and finally bring fairness and equality to all teams.

[roon]

Not gonna comment on your random accusations but no team is using their full blown quali modes in the race since you don't wanna end up with an empty battery in the next lap and be a sitting duck. Ferrari's magic is having more energy to spend during one lap via some clever or simply very efficient MGU-H recovery.

They are still using two batteries arent they?, and they have only installed one sensor to one battery and the other is not monitored. Why did the FIA ask them to change a software last year before monaco after they investigated their engine and found something tricky, never got a penalty. Just image if this was another manufacturer, it would be the end of the manufacturer. The reality is they cheated point blank and mercedes found it out due to one individual who worked for ferrari. Look at Haas very poor in race pace but comes to light in qualifying. shame FIA does not act becuase we all know what FIA stands for. A typical example is the fine given to ferrari for unsafe release whereas max got a 5 second penalty causing him to loose crucial points. ferrari fine is like breakfast money to ferrari. Shame we fans want to see fair treatment to all teams.

Double/twin battery was a reference to how the ES was/is designed. Could have single, triple, quadruple battery. The sky is the limit. But it will all be considered the ES, which all current into and out of is measured by FIA sensor.

[etusch]

It's going to be difficult, but possible. If Hamilton wins again twice and Verstappen doesn't podium, this year's chance is gone. Verstappen has to start beating Hamilton, the car and driver have the race pace but maybe not the quali pace. Front row starts would be ideal, but getting by 2 Mercedes, even if Bottas is slower than Verstappen, isn't easy.

The only hope is that Ferrari can also steal a few wins, anything other than Mercedes 1-2. The chance is slim, but it is still there.

They can certainly be in contention next round

For this to happen we need like 4 or 5 more wins and a bumch of Merc DNF’s. Not likely.

If we look at it on paper it's a 62 point deficit. If Max wins and Hamilton comes 2nd that's 7 points gained, 8 if Verstappen gets fastest lap. There are 10 rounds to go. If Verstappen wins 8 in a row + fastest lap and Hamilton comes 2nd 8 times in a row Verstappen will take the lead with 2 races to go. If Verstappen only takes victory and no fastest laps it will take 9 victories in a row to take the lead. If we have another 26 point haul over Hamilton at any time during the season, and the Red Bull package takes that next step to fight on equal footing it's game on. As Hamilton's advantage would only be 36 points, something Max can overcome given equally fast cars and a full third of the season to go.

If he pulled it off it would be one of the greatest comebacks in racing since Raikkonen took the title in 2007.

If Redbull Honda would do that and Hamilton win wdc by keeping damage low still it would be wonderful season. Really wonderful season.

[gokarter]

You seem to know more than the FIA, you should work for them and finally bring fairness and equality to all teams.

I would love to work for them. But it is a common practice and even Bernie eccelstone himself admitted to helping ferrari.

For this reason ,I cant support a team which is favoured massively. Even the recent alfa's traction control ban in germany. arent the ferrari engine used in the alpha car use the same engine mapping software.? if so ferrari probably does the same and fia just ignores them because they are ferrari
here is the link. for more proof
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... advantage/

[Pyrone89]

It's going to be difficult, but possible. If Hamilton wins again twice and Verstappen doesn't podium, this year's chance is gone. Verstappen has to start beating Hamilton, the car and driver have the race pace but maybe not the quali pace. Front row starts would be ideal, but getting by 2 Mercedes, even if Bottas is slower than Verstappen, isn't easy.

The only hope is that Ferrari can also steal a few wins, anything other than Mercedes 1-2. The chance is slim, but it is still there.

They can certainly be in contention next round

For this to happen we need like 4 or 5 more wins and a bumch of Merc DNF’s. Not likely.

If we look at it on paper it's a 62 point deficit. If Max wins and Hamilton comes 2nd that's 7 points gained, 8 if Verstappen gets fastest lap. There are 10 rounds to go. If Verstappen wins 8 in a row + fastest lap and Hamilton comes 2nd 8 times in a row Verstappen will take the lead with 2 races to go. If Verstappen only takes victory and no fastest laps it will take 9 victories in a row to take the lead. If we have another 26 point haul over Hamilton at any time during the season, and the Red Bull package takes that next step to fight on equal footing it's game on. As Hamilton's advantage would only be 36 points, something Max can overcome given equally fast cars and a full third of the season to go.

If he pulled it off it would be one of the greatest comebacks in racing since Raikkonen took the title in 2007.

Comeback is an understatement.

Look if it is up to Verstappen vs Hamilton in equally good machinery and equally good team operations, based on the last 1,5 years of driving Verstappen would be able to beat Hamilton more than Hamilton beats him. But the fact is they dont have equal machinery (Honda still 3rd best engine, RB 2nd best chassis, Mercedes is best in both categories in racetrim, in qualitrim Ferrari has the better engine), Verstappen has to take an engine penalty thus is going to lose points in at least 1 race (bigger deficit plus less races to work away that deficit) and there are tracks that massively favor engine power where neither Merc or RB may take the maximum points due to a Ferrari win (Monza, Spa, Abu Dhabi, Sochi). Basically if you would have to make quote for this as a booky it would make someone a millionaire just by placing 100 euro on it.

[Maplesoup]

Spa Ferrari would probably qualify on pole because of the powerful engine mode but as we have learned those mode only works in quali they can't even use it to defend position and there racepace have been poor they have yet to master tires . As for Mercedes their high drag philosophy would be a handycap

those qualy mode are very dodgy. for me they use extra battery knowing well they can get away with it knowing FIA will ignore it completely. look at Haas, slow race pace but gains huge time in qualy. shame the FIA are allowing this to happen. I reckon honda in the race engine mode is top notch.

Not gonna comment on your random accusations but no team is using their full blown quali modes in the race since you don't wanna end up with an empty battery in the next lap and be a sitting duck. Ferrari's magic is having more energy to spend during one lap via some clever or simply very efficient MGU-H recovery.

Ok so, Yes and no to all this.

Qualy mode is alot of different things. No battery regen, full energy deployment from mguk and battery, full Ice bhp. It's not one thing.

So teams use these modes in the race, of course they do. They want as much performance as possible at the beginning of the race, so full Ice bhp, no battery regen would make sense for the first lap or so. Teams can't use extra battery during qualy but they do use all of the energy available in one lap, something they don't do during the race.

Ferrari have some kind of performance advantage on the power unit side but also run less downforce and drag than other cars. How they get the advantage is only speculation.

[godlameroso]

For this to happen we need like 4 or 5 more wins and a bumch of Merc DNF’s. Not likely.

If we look at it on paper it's a 62 point deficit. If Max wins and Hamilton comes 2nd that's 7 points gained, 8 if Verstappen gets fastest lap. There are 10 rounds to go. If Verstappen wins 8 in a row + fastest lap and Hamilton comes 2nd 8 times in a row Verstappen will take the lead with 2 races to go. If Verstappen only takes victory and no fastest laps it will take 9 victories in a row to take the lead. If we have another 26 point haul over Hamilton at any time during the season, and the Red Bull package takes that next step to fight on equal footing it's game on. As Hamilton's advantage would only be 36 points, something Max can overcome given equally fast cars and a full third of the season to go.

If he pulled it off it would be one of the greatest comebacks in racing since Raikkonen took the title in 2007.

Comeback is an understatement.

Look if it is up to Verstappen vs Hamilton in equally good machinery and equally good team operations, based on the last 1,5 years of driving Verstappen would be able to beat Hamilton more than Hamilton beats him. But the fact is they dont have equal machinery (Honda still 3rd best engine, RB 2nd best chassis, Mercedes is best in both categories in racetrim, in qualitrim Ferrari has the better engine), Verstappen has to take an engine penalty thus is going to lose points in at least 1 race (bigger deficit plus less races to work away that deficit) and there are tracks that massively favor engine power where neither Merc or RB may take the maximum points due to a Ferrari win (Monza, Spa, Abu Dhabi, Sochi). Basically if you would have to make quote for this as a booky it would make someone a millionaire just by placing 100 euro on it.

You keep saying this but now we have 2/3 races which directly contradict your statements. Mercedes was ok in the wet, but they could not pull away from Verstappen, and in the dry Verstappen had better pace than either Mercedes drivers, and mind you both of their cars were not damaged at that point. So you can't use that excuse or that Hamilton was being held up, like you can in Verstappen's favor in Silverstone.

I think in race pace the Red Bull is every bit the match of the Mercedes, maybe slightly faster or slower depending on circuit. You don't qualify within .2 seconds around a 5.9km circuit if your car isn't on the pace.

[Juzh]

due to a Ferrari win (Monza, Spa, Abu Dhabi, Sochi).

Mercedes walked the abu dhabi gp last year even though ferrari was gaining bus lengths on them on the straights, thus it can not be said it is purely a power track. Same for sochi, it is a power track, but not in a way like spa or monza where you can really win just by being a rocketship on the straights and almost nothing else.

[Pyrone89]

If we look at it on paper it's a 62 point deficit. If Max wins and Hamilton comes 2nd that's 7 points gained, 8 if Verstappen gets fastest lap. There are 10 rounds to go. If Verstappen wins 8 in a row + fastest lap and Hamilton comes 2nd 8 times in a row Verstappen will take the lead with 2 races to go. If Verstappen only takes victory and no fastest laps it will take 9 victories in a row to take the lead. If we have another 26 point haul over Hamilton at any time during the season, and the Red Bull package takes that next step to fight on equal footing it's game on. As Hamilton's advantage would only be 36 points, something Max can overcome given equally fast cars and a full third of the season to go.

If he pulled it off it would be one of the greatest comebacks in racing since Raikkonen took the title in 2007.

Comeback is an understatement.

Look if it is up to Verstappen vs Hamilton in equally good machinery and equally good team operations, based on the last 1,5 years of driving Verstappen would be able to beat Hamilton more than Hamilton beats him. But the fact is they dont have equal machinery (Honda still 3rd best engine, RB 2nd best chassis, Mercedes is best in both categories in racetrim, in qualitrim Ferrari has the better engine), Verstappen has to take an engine penalty thus is going to lose points in at least 1 race (bigger deficit plus less races to work away that deficit) and there are tracks that massively favor engine power where neither Merc or RB may take the maximum points due to a Ferrari win (Monza, Spa, Abu Dhabi, Sochi). Basically if you would have to make quote for this as a booky it would make someone a millionaire just by placing 100 euro on it.

You keep saying this but now we have 2/3 races which directly contradict your statements. Mercedes was ok in the wet, but they could not pull away from Verstappen, and in the dry Verstappen had better pace than either Mercedes drivers, and mind you both of their cars were not damaged at that point. So you can't use that excuse or that Hamilton was being held up, like you can in Verstappen's favor in Silverstone.

I think in race pace the Red Bull is every bit the match of the Mercedes, maybe slightly faster or slower depending on circuit. You don't qualify within .2 seconds around a 5.9km circuit if your car isn't on the pace.

You have a point that they were close these last 2/3 races, but the Friday in Hockenheim (in hot weather nonetheless) showed a big advantage for Merc. Also those 2/3 races where when RBR had their big upgrade and Merc not yet. Now Merc have their big upgrade and we will have to wait for a complete dry race with no damage (Austria: cooling issues and broken front wing, Germany: Hamilton had more damage than just his nose, visually one of the flow conditioners was gone , Merc pit stop disaster) and them to dial in the adjusted setup to judge the new running order.

Dont forget that until Austria the season looked to be an absolute whitewash for Mercedes with them absolutely trashing everyone. Also in Silverstone they were again comfortably ahead and Max would only have gotten ahead of Bottas (if not for Vettel) because Merc messed up the tyre strategy and the pack could bunch up under SC. From all that I could see we have 2 special races where Merc didnt get their usual pace due to damage and weather (extremely hot Austria, changing conditions Germany) and in all the other races they won by either a big margin or a small margin but only because of a team operations error not a pace problem (such as Monaco giving HAM wrong tyres).

I would be happy to share your optimism, but until we see a normal race with normal weather and no damage or blunders from Merc or their drivers where the RB outpaces or matches the Merc we can not start to think about regularly beating them on merit, let alone the championship.

[godlameroso]

This weekend it will simply be hot, so we can see. A high downforce track like Hungaroring will not benefit Ferrari, and should put Mercedes and Red Bull in a scrap for pole. After that the race should be pretty cut and dry and whoever has the best pace, tire management, and get away from the start will win. If Hamilton cannot pull away from Verstappen we'll know the truth. If Verstappen somehow gets ahead of Hamilton at the start, and if Hamilton manages to overtake, then I will concede your point.

Mercedes pace advantage could be as it were in 2013, when it could qualify strongly but would not have similar race pace as the Lotus of that year.

[1158]

RB use the old spec PUs on Fri (been stated multiple time by multiple sources)

That's why they gain so much time on Sat.

[Pyrone89]

This weekend it will simply be hot, so we can see. A high downforce track like Hungaroring will not benefit Ferrari, and should put Mercedes and Red Bull in a scrap for pole. After that the race should be pretty cut and dry and whoever has the best pace, tire management, and get away from the start will win. If Hamilton cannot pull away from Verstappen we'll know the truth. If Verstappen somehow gets ahead of Hamilton at the start, and if Hamilton manages to overtake, then I will concede your point.

Mercedes pace advantage could be as it were in 2013, when it could qualify strongly but would not have similar race pace as the Lotus of that year.

Yep we will see. Just to be clear we are both HOPING for the same to become reality (both supporting same team) but we just have a difference of what we EXPECT to happen

[Maplesoup]

RB use the old spec PUs on Fri (been stated multiple time by multiple sources)

That's why they gain so much time on Sat.

Most teams do the same thing

[Sieper]

Yeah but most teams do not have as much of a performance difference between spec 2 and 3. I know they said, small change and more reliability but whatever they call it, the spec 3 is much improved imho.