Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[raymondu999]

Yeah...Vet stays at Big Red. No reason to leave...no place to go. If he was thinking of playing a D Ric type wildcard...this year's Renault fiasco should put those thoughts to rest. I do not think he is that unhappy. Not everyone can drive a Merc and Vet is keen enough to know that.

Frustration is surely creeping in though. He's been stuck without a title for 5 years now after a string of 4 in 4 years.

So to all those saying Vettel is out of Ferrari next year, who do you think would replace him?

Raikkonen? lol I jest. Ummm... if it were to happen my best bet would be someone like a Ricciardo first choice; next probably Hulkenberg or Perez; though I'm less sure of Perez because he would probably have burnt a few bridges the way he abandoned the Ferrari program.

I think it's nuts. The guy is still quick and capable. Even if Leclerc is the future, there simply isn't anyone else of Vettel's caliber available.

I agree; I don't think the decision lies with Ferrari though. I think if anything Vettel's probably the one unhappy with the environment he's in atm. I don't think Vettel's actually past his peak/prime or what have you either; it's just that Ferrari have built a car that doesn't gel well with his driving style, but suits Leclerc; or Leclerc is more adaptable to.

[selvam_e2002]

for what reason Vettel should stay at Ferrari? Just for wing man for Lecrec? or for salary? or wait for 2020 to complete to move to Mercedes?

I don't think Mercedes will take him till Hamilton drive for them and Bottos will be replaced by Russel by 2021. Where Vettel will go? If he want to go to RB in 2021 why not this year?

There is no sense for him to stay at Ferrai for 2020 to move to RB in 2021.

He is not happy to celebrate with Lecrec F1 win and stays behind with engineers. It is not good team sprite.

He is not comfortable with Ferrari as Lecrec dominating him as Ricciardo did in RB.


nothing working for him. It seems he and ferrari tight lipped about their respective feature.

He may retire as Rosberg did and surprised all at the end of the this year or will move to RB.

[raymondu999]

for what reason Vettel should stay at Ferrari? Just for wing man for Lecrec?

I don't think it's that clear. We have seen before drivers who have beaten their teammates one year get beat the next. A lot depends on the car and the driving style too. I don't think your second statement is a given at all. Look at Kimi and Massa back in their first Ferrari careers; it kept to-ing and fro-ing.

or wait for 2020

That is a point on everyone's minds I'm sure, in terms of negotiating driving contracts. The formbook of the field could get a big shuffle.

If he want to go to RB in 2021 why not this year?

Depends also if RBR want him.

He is not happy to celebrate with Lecrec F1 win and stays behind with engineers. It is not good team sprite.

I don't think that was the reason, was it? I saw it more as, "it's Charles' day today, let him have his solo time in the spotlight"

He is not comfortable with Ferrari as Lecrec dominating him as Ricciardo did in RB

Yep; pace wise he's doing even worse to Leclerc, than he did to Ricciardo in 2014. But again a lot depends on driving style and car.

It seems he and ferrari tight lipped about their respective feature.

As much as announcements get denied every day; Ferrari has not been tight-lipped about it; Ferrari has already said they want to keep Leclerc-Vettel for 2020.

He may retire as Rosberg did and surprised all at the end of the this year or will move to RB.

maybe, maybe. But I dont think it's just 1 or the other.

[zeph]

Leclerc has won one race. One race. And now people think Vettel is yesterday’s news. Let’s see what the word is if he wins Monza come Sunday.

[zeph]

Yeah...Vet stays at Big Red. No reason to leave...no place to go. If he was thinking of playing a D Ric type wildcard...this year's Renault fiasco should put those thoughts to rest. I do not think he is that unhappy. Not everyone can drive a Merc and Vet is keen enough to know that.

Frustration is surely creeping in though. He's been stuck without a title for 5 years now after a string of 4 in 4 years.

So to all those saying Vettel is out of Ferrari next year, who do you think would replace him?

Raikkonen? lol I jest. Ummm... if it were to happen my best bet would be someone like a Ricciardo first choice; next probably Hulkenberg or Perez; though I'm less sure of Perez because he would probably have burnt a few bridges the way he abandoned the Ferrari program.

I think it's nuts. The guy is still quick and capable. Even if Leclerc is the future, there simply isn't anyone else of Vettel's caliber available.

I agree; I don't think the decision lies with Ferrari though. I think if anything Vettel's probably the one unhappy with the environment he's in atm. I don't think Vettel's actually past his peak/prime or what have you either; it's just that Ferrari have built a car that doesn't gel well with his driving style, but suits Leclerc; or Leclerc is more adaptable to.

OK, but where would he go? RBR? If he’s having a hard time beating Leclerc, would beating Verstappen be any easier? Any other team is a step down from the Scuderia, so that leaves a surprise exit á la Rosberg. Somehow I think Vettel would want to leave on a high, not through the backdoor after being shown up by a junior teammate.

[tpeman]

Vettel is still in front of Leclerc in the driver standings. It's not like Charles is dominating him, if anything, I think they are closely matched in pace (safe for Spa and Canada, where one had a very big margin over the other). Considering Leclerc's dominating performance in GP3 and F2, Seb is doing great.

I think Kvyat may drive for Alfa Romeo, giving him a shot at a Ferrari seat if Vettel retires. Evaluating him against Kimi will give them a clear picture on his capabilities. If this happens, there will be a vacant seat in Torro Rosso, which might go to Vips.

[izzy]

OK, but where would he go? RBR? If he’s having a hard time beating Leclerc, would beating Verstappen be any easier? Any other team is a step down from the Scuderia, so that leaves a surprise exit á la Rosberg. Somehow I think Vettel would want to leave on a high, not through the backdoor after being shown up by a junior teammate.

Yes Red Bull would only be available if Max moved, and even then would our ruthless Helmut take Seb back? It's a long time since the glory days with his blown diffuser, since then he's been beaten by Danny, made 80 points worth of mistakes in two years when the car was good enough to challenge for the championship, and currently is looking slower and no more consistent than Charles the hot sophomore.

And i don't think any of the top cars suit him, they all suit the guys who like a razor sharp front end and steer it with the back - Lewis, Max and Charles. So he can only tough it out at Ferrari afaics and see if he can turn it round or otherwise just be a classy team player. He is quite a classy guy, I think, so I think he'll do that, but perhaps not for a long time.

[raymondu999]

Leclerc has won one race. One race. And now people think Vettel is yesterday’s news. Let’s see what the word is if he wins Monza come Sunday.

Agreed. I feel there's a bit too much knee-jerk doommongering.

OK, but where would he go? RBR? If he’s having a hard time beating Leclerc, would beating Verstappen be any easier?

I would contend that in an RBR that suits Vettel better; he would have an easier time (whether it's ahead, or being "less behind") with Verstappen, than vs Leclerc in a Ferrari that doesn't suit him

Vettel is still in front of Leclerc in the driver standings. It's not like Charles is dominating him, if anything, I think they are closely matched in pace (safe for Spa and Canada, where one had a very big margin over the other). Considering Leclerc's dominating performance in GP3 and F2, Seb is doing great.

I think people are more referring to the trend. Seb has been sort of even stevens or slightly ahead of Leclerc in the first 6 or so races; (barring Bahrain where Leclerc was just way ahead, a la Spa) but in the last 6 races, barring maybe Hockenheim then Leclerc has clearly outperformed Seb.

I think Kvyat may drive for Alfa Romeo, giving him a shot at a Ferrari seat if Vettel retires. Evaluating him against Kimi will give them a clear picture on his capabilities. If this happens, there will be a vacant seat in Torro Rosso, which might go to Vips.

Who is Vips again, sorry? I would think Ferrari have a clear grasp of his capabilities; considering he was their sim driver in 2018?

[raymondu999]

And i don't think any of the top cars suit him, they all suit the guys who like a razor sharp front end and steer it with the back - Lewis, Max and Charles.

Is that the case with RBR and Max though? I feel like Max is a smoother driver and he doesn't use the same rear end instability for steering as the other 2 you mentioned do, at least in the 2019 RBR. Having said that I do think that Verstappen is one of the more adaptable drivers.

I'm no expert, no race driver; and no racing coach, so I could be wrong. But I do feel Gasly's driving prefers a pointier front than Max, and he prefers a sort of more stable car which he can throw into the corner and not worry about oversteer.

Slightly off topic; but I do think Gasly is more of a Raikkonen type driver where he prefers to have softer/smoother inputs, and let a strong front end rotate the car for him; whereas Verstappen looks to me like Alonso's Renault years (albeit less brash) of throwing the car into the corner and just having blind faith the rear won't step out.

[tpeman]

Leclerc has won one race. One race. And now people think Vettel is yesterday’s news. Let’s see what the word is if he wins Monza come Sunday.

Agreed. I feel there's a bit too much knee-jerk doommongering.

OK, but where would he go? RBR? If he’s having a hard time beating Leclerc, would beating Verstappen be any easier?

I would contend that in an RBR that suits Vettel better; he would have an easier time (whether it's ahead, or being "less behind") with Verstappen, than vs Leclerc in a Ferrari that doesn't suit him

Vettel is still in front of Leclerc in the driver standings. It's not like Charles is dominating him, if anything, I think they are closely matched in pace (safe for Spa and Canada, where one had a very big margin over the other). Considering Leclerc's dominating performance in GP3 and F2, Seb is doing great.

I think people are more referring to the trend. Seb has been sort of even stevens or slightly ahead of Leclerc in the first 6 or so races; (barring Bahrain where Leclerc was just way ahead, a la Spa) but in the last 6 races, barring maybe Hockenheim then Leclerc has clearly outperformed Seb.

I think Kvyat may drive for Alfa Romeo, giving him a shot at a Ferrari seat if Vettel retires. Evaluating him against Kimi will give them a clear picture on his capabilities. If this happens, there will be a vacant seat in Torro Rosso, which might go to Vips.

Who is Vips again, sorry? I would think Ferrari have a clear grasp of his capabilities; considering he was their sim driver in 2018?

That's why I said "might". Vips is currently the closest to F1 from the RB junior program, I don't think they have many options other than him if Kvyat or Gasly leave. Other choices might be to call back former drivers, but most of them aren't that young anymore - Hartley (29), Vergne (29), Buemi (30), or to get a Honda-affiliated driver, so they seem like a short-term solution.

I agree Ferrari have a grasp of his driving skills, but as you said he was mostly a simulator driver and did some tire tests with them. He never really did any racing with Ferrari.

[izzy]

Is that the case with RBR and Max though? I feel like Max is a smoother driver and he doesn't use the same rear end instability for steering as the other 2 you mentioned do, at least in the 2019 RBR. Having said that I do think that Verstappen is one of the more adaptable drivers.

I'm no expert, no race driver; and no racing coach, so I could be wrong. But I do feel Gasly's driving prefers a pointier front than Max, and he prefers a sort of more stable car which he can throw into the corner and not worry about oversteer.

Slightly off topic; but I do think Gasly is more of a Raikkonen type driver where he prefers to have softer/smoother inputs, and let a strong front end rotate the car for him; whereas Verstappen looks to me like Alonso's Renault years (albeit less brash) of throwing the car into the corner and just having blind faith the rear won't step out.

I think Pierre likes a solid back end that allows him to turn in hard and not bite him, tho i haven't seen that from anyone in the sport, must admit! But then in my mind Max doesn't need that and that's where the huge gap came from. It looks to me like a sharp car, that they need this year to work the front tyre carcass, it's basically faster and having Max that's how the team has developed it.

And of course that wouldn't work for Seb either. Kimi likes a Jenson style car i think, that he guides in, and that means sharpish but not too naughty

I might be falling for the hype and overestimating Max, but i think it's about car control talent and how front-endy they can go with the car, atm, and he's got it.

[raymondu999]

I agree Ferrari have a grasp of his driving skills, but as you said he was mostly a simulator driver and did some tire tests with them. He never really did any racing with Ferrari.

Yea but like; they know and understand his driving style/preferences (from his sim days) - and what exactly does racing with a team do though? I mean, other than understanding their racecraft. Which they can see on track anyways.

[NathanOlder]

Leclerc has won one race. One race. And now people think Vettel is yesterday’s news. Let’s see what the word is if he wins Monza come Sunday.

Agreed. I feel there's a bit too much knee-jerk doommongering.

OK, but where would he go? RBR? If he’s having a hard time beating Leclerc, would beating Verstappen be any easier?

I would contend that in an RBR that suits Vettel better; he would have an easier time (whether it's ahead, or being "less behind") with Verstappen, than vs Leclerc in a Ferrari that doesn't suit him

Vettel is still in front of Leclerc in the driver standings. It's not like Charles is dominating him, if anything, I think they are closely matched in pace (safe for Spa and Canada, where one had a very big margin over the other). Considering Leclerc's dominating performance in GP3 and F2, Seb is doing great.

I think people are more referring to the trend. Seb has been sort of even stevens or slightly ahead of Leclerc in the first 6 or so races; (barring Bahrain where Leclerc was just way ahead, a la Spa) but in the last 6 races, barring maybe Hockenheim then Leclerc has clearly outperformed Seb.

I think Kvyat may drive for Alfa Romeo, giving him a shot at a Ferrari seat if Vettel retires. Evaluating him against Kimi will give them a clear picture on his capabilities. If this happens, there will be a vacant seat in Torro Rosso, which might go to Vips.

Who is Vips again, sorry? I would think Ferrari have a clear grasp of his capabilities; considering he was their sim driver in 2018?

That's why I said "might". Vips is currently the closest to F1 from the RB junior program, I don't think they have many options other than him if Kvyat or Gasly leave. Other choices might be to call back former drivers, but most of them aren't that young anymore - Hartley (29), Vergne (29), Buemi (30), or to get a Honda-affiliated driver, so they seem like a short-term solution.

I agree Ferrari have a grasp of his driving skills, but as you said he was mostly a simulator driver and did some tire tests with them. He never really did any racing with Ferrari.

I can't see Vips being good enough for F1 any time soon, 3 years time maybe, with a championship or 2 under his belt.

RedBull really have noting in the pipeline, they are out of drivers. Vettel is a great idea for them. I think RedBull would take him back if they didnt have Max, but having Max and bringing Seb in can only cause trouble in my opinion.

I would love to see Seb go back alongside Max, but I can see it.

2020 should have been

Mercedes - Ham - Oco
Ferrari - Lec - Ric
RedBull - Ver - Vet
Renault - Hul - Alo
Mclaren - Sai - Nor

I can dream anyway.

[Jolle]

For 2020, Vettel is safe and under contract with PM/Ferrari, who wants to have a WC in their car at all times, even when they are underperforming. If Leclerc develops into the next top guy for them, what it looks like during this season, for 2021 they could go back to their old style, front man - wing man setup, with Vettel's place taken by a Barichello, Massa kind of driver. With the market open for '21, there are many many options: Sainz, Bottas, Ricciardo, etc etc. Don't think Kvyat is on top of that list.

If Vettel chooses (or the choice is made for him) to leave Ferrari for the '21 season, I can't see him taking a place as a wingman or at a midfield team, he rather quit. A swap with Ricciardo could work, not a real top team for the moment but one with work status. RedBull would be an option if Verstappen leaves, but the way he left them after 2014 wasn't the best way, so there should be some talks first to start with a clean sheet. As for Mercedes, they will either go for Hamilton and/or Verstappen. Don't think they are in the market for Vettel.

[selvam_e2002]

Even with 2021 Vettel will have limited opportunity. NO way to join Mercedes till Hamilton driving for Mercedes.
Mercedes should replace Botta with Russel in 2021.

The only option for Vettel would be staying at Ferrari 2020 or Move to RB or Retire.

Other option would be:

In 2021 get a contract negation with Ferrari or Retire. There is no sense to move to RB in 2021. If he decided to move it should be in 2020.