2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[Restomaniac]

So, not with all onboards, but at least all the radio traffic:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/

Hamilton accusing the Ferraris of purposely keeping them from starting the lap, figures.

At that moment without all the facts all he would have seen red cars and others blocking. Not a stretch from his POV.

[Scorpaguy]

Dry race:
1. Ham
2. Bot
3. Vet

Full wet race:
1. Ver
2. Ham
3. Bot

Mixed race/safety car(s)...all likely:
1. ???
2. ???
3. ???

So the pole man has no chance of snatching the podium?

Telemetry data suggests not...Merc (and maybe RB) race pace likely to prevail. If wet...no chance.

[izzy]

That kind of disputes the argument that they all hadn’t left it too late. I think it’s obvious that even if one of the drivers had been willing to lead off the field that not everyone would have made the flag due to tyre warm-ups and gaping.

yes they all left their garages with 2:00 to go. So racing laptime 1:20 and 10 cars spaced at 4s each...

very amusing imo

[Restomaniac]

That kind of disputes the argument that they all hadn’t left it too late. I think it’s obvious that even if one of the drivers had been willing to lead off the field that not everyone would have made the flag due to tyre warm-ups and gaping.

yes they all left their garages with 2:00 to go. So racing laptime 1:20 and 10 cars spaced at 4s each...

very amusing imo

I said that at the time but some on here still seemed to want to blame Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz! Also remember that the first car (Hulkenberg) didn’t get to corner 1 until there was only 1’36 left on the clock.

[mzso]

Telemetry data suggests not...Merc (and maybe RB) race pace likely to prevail. If wet...no chance.

I'll take you up on this, ifa a Ferrari wins.
BTW, Leclerc was on course for a win when he dropped it in Germany and Vettel ended up on the podium, starting last... And Hockenheim was never claimed to be a Ferrari track.

[Scorpaguy]

So Ham blames Big Red et al for not giving him a shot at pole.

This from the guy and team setting on their arses for 3 min. in the garage. Piece of work this guy.

1. Hard for me to believe the Big Red Strategists have it in them.
2. If everyone stays idle in the garage with time ticking away and i had pole...I too would have left first and performed a far more convincing rolling roadblock.

[izzy]

I said that at the time but some on here still seemed to want to blame Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz! Also remember that the first car (Hulkenberg) didn’t get to corner 1 until there was only 1’36 left on the clock.

yes true tho they didn't exactly help, tbf, but the teams were all watching the wrong ball weren't they. Anyway it's good fun when we're on our sofas sniggering while the most awesome engineers in the world get the numbers completely wrong

and they'll be trying very hard not to do it again

[El Scorchio]

I guess the issue with the Vettel incident is that there are two options based on which to decide.
The tyre is on the line if
- it physically touches the line
- it, when viewed from straight above, blocks part of the view of the line

As the reglement does not specify (or does it?) which of those two is the valid interpretation for deciding in or out, the stewards decided on no penalty. I think that is sort of what they imply by the conflicting camera angles. If both versions of the interpretation give the same result, it is easy. If not, they have a problem.
I guess they might release a technical directive (can you do that for the sporting regs?) and change the rules as soon as they can, to mitigate this issue for the future.

For the rest of the pack and driving unnecessarily slow, the issue might be, where to draw the line. Everybody was sort of involved to a different degree.

Well I’d have thought that even anyone with an iota of sense in the rule making/stewarding setup should realise you’ll never get consistent aerial views at a perfect overhead angle to make these judgement calls based on the ‘view from above’ so it’s completely pointless if the decision is going to be based on a lack of conclusive footage from that angle. Bonkers.

Base it on footage you can obtain easily, like the broadcast or circuit cameras. If there’s an angle on any of them that shows a gap, then that should be that.

check this image - from your point of view, the pilot should have been black flagged for leaving track...
I'm no Vettel fan, but this was quite gray, I think stewards, just like in few instances previously this year, used the gray area in the rules to make the show go on, nothing more, and this case was quite mild compared to other decisions, it is not like he got a pole either, he is behind both mercs, pretty much where he would be in not the cockup with the Q3

image of the pilot leaving the track, according to some here anyway...
http://pitlane.gr/media/k2/items/cache/ ... 29d_XL.jpg

That’s not the same at all. The car there is airborne but within the track limits. Vettel’s car was not airborne and not within the track limits.

And who said anything about being black flagged?

[RaceFan1]

So, not with all onboards, but at least all the radio traffic:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/

Hamilton accusing the Ferraris of purposely keeping them from starting their lap, figures...

The Mercs were at the front of the queue and stopped to do "practice starts". Can't blame the Ferraris for that.

[Restomaniac]

So Ham blames Big Red et al for not giving him a shot at pole.

This from the guy and team setting on their arses for 3 min. in the garage. Piece of work this guy.

1. Hard for me to believe the Big Red Strategists have it in them.
2. If everyone stays idle in the garage with time ticking away and i had pole...I too would have left first and performed a far more convincing rolling roadblock.

It’s all about POV. He sees red cars going slow in front of him without all the facts.

[RaceFan1]

So, not with all onboards, but at least all the radio traffic:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ana ... -unfolded/

Hamilton accusing the Ferraris of purposely keeping them from starting their lap, figures...

[Phil]

Yes i agree. The FIA should change the rules everytime we have something (some) people dont like. That would surely make the sport much more better, exciting and thrilling.

Instead of unpredictable mayhem about who goes when to not give others a tow, we’ll just end up with the most predictable result, race in and race out. Much better.

I’d guess if that happens, we can just about close these threads too. Instead of having 15 pages of heated posts, we will have just a few posts with some whinging about yet another predictable saturday result.

On a more serious note; i agree with the non-penalty for Vettel. Those that have read the FIA report will see that they recognized the footage that Vettel was out of the track when looking at the contact patch, but that from other angles, it could well be that outmost part of the car (the wheels) might still be on or touching the line.

[Jolle]

So Ham blames Big Red et al for not giving him a shot at pole.

This from the guy and team setting on their arses for 3 min. in the garage. Piece of work this guy.

1. Hard for me to believe the Big Red Strategists have it in them.
2. If everyone stays idle in the garage with time ticking away and i had pole...I too would have left first and performed a far more convincing rolling roadblock.

Just get off your prancing high horse. They are just all blaming the one that didn’t go out first. It was a right funny mess and Leclerc was lucky he already has the fastest time (or not really luck, he put in the lap himself). All drivers and teams should point fingers to themselves and not ask for new rules, etc etc. This was just fun. Having hundreds of engineers, supercomputers and super accurate timing and tracking equipment fail so spectacular. Felt like a last kilometer of a tour the France stage where nobody wants to start from the lead.

[Restomaniac]

I said that at the time but some on here still seemed to want to blame Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz! Also remember that the first car (Hulkenberg) didn’t get to corner 1 until there was only 1’36 left on the clock.

yes true tho they didn't exactly help, tbf, but the teams were all watching the wrong ball weren't they. Anyway it's good fun when we're on our sofas sniggering while the most awesome engineers in the world get the numbers completely wrong

and they'll be trying very hard not to do it again

TBH I cannot see how they got it that wrong. As you say the sheer mathematics of it don’t add up. As somebody else said they were all so desperate to not give anyone else a tow that they missed getting a time themeselves.

[Scorpaguy]

So Ham blames Big Red et al for not giving him a shot at pole.

This from the guy and team setting on their arses for 3 min. in the garage. Piece of work this guy.

1. Hard for me to believe the Big Red Strategists have it in them.
2. If everyone stays idle in the garage with time ticking away and i had pole...I too would have left first and performed a far more convincing rolling roadblock.

Just get off your prancing high horse. They are just all blaming the one that didn’t go out first. It was a right funny mess and Leclerc was lucky he already has the fastest time (or not really luck, he put in the lap himself). All drivers and teams should point fingers to themselves and not ask for new rules, etc etc. This was just fun. Having hundreds of engineers, supercomputers and super accurate timing and tracking equipment fail so spectacular. Felt like a last kilometer of a tour the France stage where nobody wants to start from the lead.

High horse dismounted