2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[RZS10]

image of the pilot leaving the track, according to some here anyway...

Just observing the situation one would come to the conclusion that this car has left the track and is flying above the track.

And according to the rules the car has indeed left the track, as no part of the car is in contact with the track. ("Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it")

The rules also say "Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason. Should a car leave the track the driver may re‐join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage."

Flying isn't deliberate, physics are a justifiable reason - losing contact to the track, thus losing propulsion is not an advantage either.

So yea, that car is leaving the track but is not gaining any advantage by doing so and therefore should not be penalized.

[Restomaniac]

Yes i agree. The FIA should change the rules everytime we have something (some) people dont like. That would surely make the sport much more better, exciting and thrilling.

Instead of unpredictable mayhem about who goes when to not give others a tow, we’ll just end up with the most predictable result, race in and race out. Much better.

I’d guess if that happens, we can just about close these threads too. Instead of having 15 pages of heated posts, we will have just a few posts with some whinging about yet another predictable saturday result.

On a more serious note; i agree with the non-penalty for Vettel. Those that have read the FIA report will see that they recognized the footage that Vettel was out of the track when looking at the contact patch, but that from other angles, it could well be that outmost part of the car (the wheels) might still be on or touching the line.

As someone once said they all just went ‘full retard’ which when you consider the people we are talking about is a bit weird. Less navel gazing and more logic would help.

[izzy]

TBH I cannot see how they got it that wrong. As you say the sheer mathematics of it don’t add up. As somebody else said they were all so desperate to not give anyone else a tow that they missed getting a time themeselves.

no it's weird! Next year we'll have to watch that time to go and see what they do

[Capharol]

I said that at the time but some on here still seemed to want to blame Hulkenberg, Stroll and Sainz! Also remember that the first car (Hulkenberg) didn’t get to corner 1 until there was only 1’36 left on the clock.

yes true tho they didn't exactly help, tbf, but the teams were all watching the wrong ball weren't they. Anyway it's good fun when we're on our sofas sniggering while the most awesome engineers in the world get the numbers completely wrong

and they'll be trying very hard not to do it again

TBH I cannot see how they got it that wrong. As you say the sheer mathematics of it don’t add up. As somebody else said they were all so desperate to not give anyone else a tow that they missed getting a time themeselves.

one word.... false pride....

thats all that cost them a shot of doing it better as in the first run.
The teams knew EXACTLY what will happen, but hey he doesn't go out, so i don't go either and when one got out he decided he didn't want to be infront so we start playing a little game .... who can push whom ... or in pub-jargon who has the biggest balls and dare to wait the longest ..... at the end all lost.

i told my wife exactly what will happen after the clock hit 2:15, I told her that they were just being stupid and they will all lose the change of a 2nd run

[Restomaniac]

TBH I cannot see how they got it that wrong. As you say the sheer mathematics of it don’t add up. As somebody else said they were all so desperate to not give anyone else a tow that they missed getting a time themeselves.

no it's weird! Next year we'll have to watch that time to go and see what they do

[Restomaniac]

yes true tho they didn't exactly help, tbf, but the teams were all watching the wrong ball weren't they. Anyway it's good fun when we're on our sofas sniggering while the most awesome engineers in the world get the numbers completely wrong

and they'll be trying very hard not to do it again

TBH I cannot see how they got it that wrong. As you say the sheer mathematics of it don’t add up. As somebody else said they were all so desperate to not give anyone else a tow that they missed getting a time themeselves.

one word.... false pride....

thats all that cost them a shot of doing it better as in the first run.
The teams knew EXACTLY what will happen, but hey he doesn't go out, so i don't go either and when one got out he decided he didn't want to be infront so we start playing a little game .... who can push whom ... or in pub-jargon who has the biggest balls and dare to wait the longest ..... at the end all lost.

i told my wife exactly what will happen after the clock hit 2:15, I told her that they were just being stupid and they will all lose the change of a 2nd run

I think most saw it coming. Hell Martin Brundle even said ‘let’s just stay sat in the garages and just go home shall we’ or words to that effect.

[El Scorchio]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

[Capharol]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

we can think of solutions all we want, but as it stands for now it won't be changed, because Monza (and Spa a little bit) is/are the only track(s) where you can really benefit from a tow, on no other track the gain is that much as here.

Baku, with his long straight, is possible aswell but due to cornering the gain isn't that big

[Restomaniac]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

we can think of solutions all we want, but as it stands for now it won't be changed, because Monza (and Spa a little bit) is/are the only track(s) where you can really benefit from a tow, on no other track the gain is that much as here.

Baku, with his long straight, is possible aswell but due to cornering the gain isn't that big

Although that is all true this situation has been getting worse on a race by race basis.The finding gaps and wanting to be behind/in-front has gotten out of hand. I mean that’s twice now that Mercedes has felt the need to fake the field and then do practice starts at the pit lane exit.

[El Scorchio]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

we can think of solutions all we want, but as it stands for now it won't be changed, because Monza (and Spa a little bit) is/are the only track(s) where you can really benefit from a tow, on no other track the gain is that much as here.

Baku, with his long straight, is possible aswell but due to cornering the gain isn't that big

Agree. I’m not suggesting this as a norm-and it’s only semi serious- but as something which could possibly work only in the tracks where we know this will happen- we all knew this was going to happen today in some shape or form. Either way they need to come up with something because today was kind of amusing in a way, but I don’t think it’s something anyone wants to see happening with any regularity at circuits where the tow is a big factor. Even for no other reason than there could potentially be a big accident.

[KeiKo403]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

But if you make that the rule then he could get pole position depending on weather conditions. Also a Ferrari, Merc or RB could still be p11 come the end of Q2.

All of these solutions are for a non-existent problem. It’s the equivalent of introducing high degrading Pirelli tyres because 1 race turned out to be really good when drivers kept having to change tyres (on one specific track, in unexpected weather conditions)

[Just_a_fan]

Is anyone expecting the same silliness in Singapore? If not, then let's not rush to fix a not-problem.

[drunkf1fan]

Is anyone expecting the same silliness in Singapore? If not, then let's not rush to fix a not-problem.

Honestly this has been building. Even back in, was it all the way in Bahrain. Time flies and I can't keep track. Maybe it was France where someone jumped in front of Grosjean so he had to slow to make a gap and not deliberately but did end up getting right in Lando's way. This has honestly, imo, been getting progressively worse all year.

We've had increasingly small gaps, increasing fighting at the very end of Q3 and it's been getting worse all year. I don't think the tow had anything to do with it. At multiple other tracks someone wants to be first or not and we've had problems many places. Wanting clear air but also starting as soon to the end of Q3 means we've had massive queues where everyone slows to create a larger gap, here was just everyone slowing for a different reason.

Last week we had guys on a hot lap causing guys to have to basically leave the track and others to go so slow people almost ran into them.

They just need to kill it, say something like you have to establish a ~4-8 second gap by the end of S1, a minimum speed that imo is a little faster than currently and then none of those bunching up at the end of S3.

[foxmulder_ms]

Before listening to Leclerc, I thought Ferrari playing games theory was 100% conspiracy but after listening to him it is 100% true. He was blaming Sainz and Hulk which is a complete lie so they did it on purpose. wow. a new low for Ferrari.

[dans79]

Before listening to Leclerc, I thought Ferrari playing games theory was 100% conspiracy but after listening to him it is 100% true. He was blaming Sainz and Hulk which is a complete lie so they did it on purpose. wow. a new low for Ferrari.

You're talking about the team that purposely broke the seals on massas transmission in Austin 2012 so they could move Alonzo to the other side of the grid.