2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

[turbof1]

Let us stay away from conspiracy theories, please. None of it here. Theories on hunches and on events that suited one team well are not going to fly.

Regarding the Vettel decision: I can understand and accept that. I would also have understood and accepted if they removed his time. That was a very difficult call as you can argue the wheel "shadowed" the white stripe. One thing to note is that this will make any similar situation in the future much more difficult to judge as they now will have to check if the tyre is hanging over the white line or not; whereas checking if any tyre makes contact with the white line is much easier.

Indeed. With regard to your first sentence, they sometimes make it awfully hard to stay away from them. Hulkenberg being dragged in front of the stewards with LeClerc being ignored screams it TBH.

I agree that Leclerc should also have been put in front of the stewards. But, making a conspiracy theory out of it is too far. There will be solid reasoning for it we aren't privy to now. If I may be brutally honest, all top 10 drivers deserved to be punished, just like they did in F3. The stewards just make a very bad impression for me overall. Not in particular over the Ferrari decisions, but across the whole board.

Now let us please move on.

[mattylwd]

For me it’s fairly simple. If you want to set a time, be sure to reach the line in time and leave the garage in time.

If you want to benefit from a tow, then keep waiting as long as you want, but don’t cry if you don’t make it in time across the line.

[Phil]

So, about the race.

I think Hamilton or Bottas will win this one. Hamilton, because I think he'll be relentless and I think the Mercedes has better race pace, which will open up a few possibilities on the strategic side to get by. Bottas might win this because of strategy. Assuming the top 4's position remains the same beyond the 1st lap, I think Mercedes will be set up nicely. If Hamilton can stay within reach, Leclerc might have to be pitted early to defend against an undercut. This would give Mercedes the option of staying out longer and potentially using Bottas as a road-block. Or if Leclerc doesn't stop, they could either pit Hamilton or Bottas to force Ferrari's hand (they'd have to pit eventually to cover them off). Then there's always the chance of a safety car, so whoever's in front (could be Bottas) could retain the lead.

I still think Leclerc might have this though, but I think the chances are rather slim, unless the Ferrari has more pace than I think they have during the race.

If it's a wet race, then I think all bets are off and it could go pretty much to anyone who ends up on the right tire at the right time.

[selvam_e2002]

I would say Hamilton will win this race. Ferrari does not have any race pace. It is almost 4th they slower in medium tire. The first 20 laps they will stay where they are then after pit stop Hamilton will over take Lecrec in track itself like he did with Kimi last year.

[Restomaniac]

Let us stay away from conspiracy theories, please. None of it here. Theories on hunches and on events that suited one team well are not going to fly.

Regarding the Vettel decision: I can understand and accept that. I would also have understood and accepted if they removed his time. That was a very difficult call as you can argue the wheel "shadowed" the white stripe. One thing to note is that this will make any similar situation in the future much more difficult to judge as they now will have to check if the tyre is hanging over the white line or not; whereas checking if any tyre makes contact with the white line is much easier.

Indeed. With regard to your first sentence, they sometimes make it awfully hard to stay away from them. Hulkenberg being dragged in front of the stewards with LeClerc being ignored screams it TBH.

I agree that Leclerc should also have been put in front of the stewards. But, making a conspiracy theory out of it is too far. There will be solid reasoning for it we aren't privy to now. If I may be brutally honest, all top 10 drivers deserved to be punished, just like they did in F3. The stewards just make a very bad impression for me overall. Not in particular over the Ferrari decisions, but across the whole board.

Now let us please move on.

I think Raikkonen being punished after he was sat in the pits watching it all would be a bit much

With regard to the actual point though I agree. I think that is why the 3 drivers who were penalised got nothing more than a slap on the wrist. The stewards could see how it was everyone’s fault and that is why they have punted it back to the FIA asking them to stop it happening again.

[Capharol]

Maybe as a solution send out the driver who came 11th as a pacemaker on the proviso he HAS to go first and by a certain time. As an incentive for him, whatever time he sets he gets to keep, even if it’s good enough to get him into the top 10 and demote someone else to 11th.

we can think of solutions all we want, but as it stands for now it won't be changed, because Monza (and Spa a little bit) is/are the only track(s) where you can really benefit from a tow, on no other track the gain is that much as here.

Baku, with his long straight, is possible aswell but due to cornering the gain isn't that big

Although that is all true this situation has been getting worse on a race by race basis.The finding gaps and wanting to be behind/in-front has gotten out of hand. I mean that’s twice now that Mercedes has felt the need to fake the field and then do practice starts at the pit lane exit.

as already have been pointed out to you

practice starts are allowed as long as you don't block the pitlane.
and they didn't, they pulled over nicely and waited till it was free to go

not sure why you are seeking something that isn't there

[Capharol]

So, about the race.

I think Hamilton or Bottas will win this one. Hamilton, because I think he'll be relentless and I think the Mercedes has better race pace, which will open up a few possibilities on the strategic side to get by. Bottas might win this because of strategy. Assuming the top 4's position remains the same beyond the 1st lap, I think Mercedes will be set up nicely. If Hamilton can stay within reach, Leclerc might have to be pitted early to defend against an undercut. This would give Mercedes the option of staying out longer and potentially using Bottas as a road-block. Or if Leclerc doesn't stop, they could either pit Hamilton or Bottas to force Ferrari's hand (they'd have to pit eventually to cover them off). Then there's always the chance of a safety car, so whoever's in front (could be Bottas) could retain the lead.

I still think Leclerc might have this though, but I think the chances are rather slim, unless the Ferrari has more pace than I think they have during the race.

If it's a wet race, then I think all bets are off and it could go pretty much to anyone who ends up on the right tire at the right time.

you only talk about Leclerc, Hamilton and Bottas but forgetting Vettel (to remind you he starts on P4)
he can play blockage aswell or trying to do the undercut on both mercedes drivers (although i think blocking at Monza is hardly possible)

[FrukostScones]

looking forward to VET denying team orders today.

[dans79]

If I may be brutally honest, all top 10 drivers deserved to be punished,

Based on what?

If I can be brutally honest, sentiments like this from a fan, moderator or a steward reed more like I don't want to single anyone out or unduly detract from the show, so let's just penalize everybody.

there is a reason three drivers were specifically called to the stewards and singled out. They caused this issue by driving overly slow. The fact that the Stewards are weak and gutless is another matter.

[Restomaniac]

we can think of solutions all we want, but as it stands for now it won't be changed, because Monza (and Spa a little bit) is/are the only track(s) where you can really benefit from a tow, on no other track the gain is that much as here.

Baku, with his long straight, is possible aswell but due to cornering the gain isn't that big

Although that is all true this situation has been getting worse on a race by race basis.The finding gaps and wanting to be behind/in-front has gotten out of hand. I mean that’s twice now that Mercedes has felt the need to fake the field and then do practice starts at the pit lane exit.

as already have been pointed out to you

practice starts are allowed as long as you don't block the pitlane.
and they didn't, they pulled over nicely and waited till it was free to go

not sure why you are seeking something that isn't there

I think you miss my point.
I’m not saying what they did was wrong. More that it was used to get others to leave and then use their tow which is part of the same problem around the current ‘No I you in front of me as I need your tow’ attitude.

[falonso81]

Merc pull off these cheeky things every race, fake pit stop, fake practise starts, fake radio messages etc.

[Restomaniac]

If I may be brutally honest, all top 10 drivers deserved to be punished,

Based on what?

If I can be brutally honest, sentiments like this from a fan, moderator or a steward reed more like I don't want to single anyone out or unduly detract from the show, so let's just penalize everybody.

there is a reason three drivers were specifically called to the stewards and singled out. They caused this issue by driving overly slow. The fact that the Stewards are weak and gutless is another matter.

The Stewards have also punted it back to the FIA telling them that they need to fix the situation. So it’s not that they are gutless but they can see what actually caused this utter mess and it wasn’t just the 3 drivers who have been given a slap on the wrist.

[turbof1]

If I may be brutally honest, all top 10 drivers deserved to be punished,

Based on what?

If I can be brutally honest, sentiments like this from a fan, moderator or a steward reed more like I don't want to single anyone out or unduly detract from the show, so let's just penalize everybody.

there is a reason three drivers were specifically called to the stewards and singled out. They caused this issue by driving overly slow. The fact that the Stewards are weak and gutless is another matter.

What has being a fan, moderator or steward have to do with having an opinion? I'm not stating my opinions as a moderator, not as a fan (because f*ck 'm all really) and I'm not a steward at all . My opinions are stated as a member. There's no authority behind that opinion. You can take it or leave it.

As far as I go, everybody waited until the last moment to get out, just to get a tow. I'm not singling anyone out because the 3 drivers (and I think you'd agree it actually was 5 drivers at certain points being in front and blocking) could have been any random 3 drivers. It's not like Hamilton, Albon or Ricciardo would have done any different in that situation, trying to slow down so others would go in front (and oh yes, there were more than enough opportunities for that. It's not like the blocking happened across the whole outlap). Number one rule in a greed fest: it is always a team effort.

Also, you are pointing at those 3 drivers, but they weren't punished for it, only reprimanded. And the reason is exactly that: they could not single them out, calling out to the FIA to fix the situation as a whole. Because if nothing is done, we will have the same situation next year, just with other drivers in a different order.

Please do not assume sentiment from me. I am frustrated with the situation like most do (there are some who find the situation hilarious, and they have a good point too). However, I am capable of rational thinking. You are focussing down on the small individual events where 3 drivers blocked at several points the others. I am focussing on general cause where everybody of those 9 drivers are greedy, looking at eachother to go out first which makes they leave with very little time on the table and when they all go on the circuit, they all go excessively slow just to avoid not having a tow. That is not sentiment, that is a different opinion and a different viewpoint. You don't have to agree with my opinion, hell please don't because this is a good debate. Just do not assume irrational thinking.

@Restomaniac: I forgot about Kimi .

[Capharol]

Although that is all true this situation has been getting worse on a race by race basis.The finding gaps and wanting to be behind/in-front has gotten out of hand. I mean that’s twice now that Mercedes has felt the need to fake the field and then do practice starts at the pit lane exit.

as already have been pointed out to you

practice starts are allowed as long as you don't block the pitlane.
and they didn't, they pulled over nicely and waited till it was free to go

not sure why you are seeking something that isn't there

I think you miss my point.
I’m not saying what they did was wrong. More that it was used to get others to leave and then use their tow which is part of the same problem around the current ‘No I you in front of me as I need your tow’ attitude.

maybe but at least its a legal and legit one
and not like Hulk a half ass baked solution and coming with a lame excuse "i looked to much in my mirror"

[hemichromis]

I'm not sure you could say Leclerc was part of the blocking, he was behind sainz and they were merely continuing a normal out lap pace.
The time loss came at the start when the group was being passed by cyclists.


This problem needs to be dealt with but I have no idea how it could be done fairly.