Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[NL_Fer]

Vettel can stay at Ferrari if Leclerc performs, they kept Massa and Raikkonen for a long time too.

Actually i don’t see him at Mercedes. Yes is he is German, more German than Rosberg. But somehow not an ambassador like Rosberg.

[Jolle]

Vettel can stay at Ferrari if Leclerc performs, they kept Massa and Raikkonen for a long time too.

Actually i don’t see him at Mercedes. Yes is he is German, more German than Rosberg. But somehow not an ambassador like Rosberg.

It seems like Ferrari has two different approaches to loyalty. If you are the no1 driver, you have a lot of pressure and they are not afraid to cut ties, even when you’re expensive of had some good results. Prost, Schumacher, Kimi in his first stint and Alonso felt this the hard way. For their support driver, they are loyal. Barrichello, Massa and Kimi in his second stint couldn’t do a thing wrong.

But... apart from ‘07, they always wanted a WC in their car and there aren’t that many available...

[Manoah2u]

Ferrari is going to have a WC in the form of Hamilton in the car in 2021, alongside bloody blazingly fast LeClerc.

The problem Mercedes is facing indeed is that they're going to lose their prime and WC driver.
Bottas in Italy once again showed why he isn't WC material. He lacks. He doesn't have it.
He is and always will be a number 2 driver. A coulthard, a barrichello.

But Mercedes needs a driver better than that.

The question popping up then will be, will they take that in Vettel?
There's the obvious pro's. German driver. 4-time WDC. Fast. Experienced. I'd rate him as a Rosberg+.

So yeah, fitting. Knowing they have grabbed a whopping load of titles, victories, etc. you might even
argue that missing the 'hunger' from Seb is acceptable. Not that Seb doesn't want to win with Mercedes,
or even a title. But he couldn't make it with Ferrari, and gets beaten 'to a pulp' by LeClerc after getting beaten
'to a pulp' by Ricciardo back @ RedBull. And if i'm very honest, Webber was good, but not spectacular. Definately not as good as Daniel and perhaps more at Bottas' level, and Vettel had his hands full with Mark. So even though i don't want to take too much away from Seb, it's not like he's a Schumacher. But that said, i also feel 4 years of titles also quite fullfills the desire to become a (multiple) WC.

Which then again shows the difference 'hunger' makes in a driver.

And that's where Daniel comes into play. He has beaten Vettel at RedBull hard. Ricciardo is blazingly fast, experienced,keeps a level head, is unparalleled in his braking overtaking manouvres, and smells blood. He is very much a WDC capable driver, which Valterri clearly just isn't.

Now the problem is, would Danny fit the Merc team? Personally, i think he'd fit better with Ferrari, especially alongside LeClerc.Mercedes imho is a far more 'sterile' environment where Daniel is a very non-sterile person. Again, Vettel imho would fit perfect.

Still, i think it's a very, very huge possibility that Hamilton is going to Ferrari. Sooner or later. And sooner hasn't happened, i'm thinking later is going to arrive in 2021.

So back to basic: Mercedes NEEDS a WDC capable driver next to their 'good boy' lap dog number 2 barrichello scout.

2020 will prove whether Ocon is as talented as some are claiming he is. If he can't beat Daniel, then the choice is made easier. Either way, Daniel doesn't have that question mark above his head, Ocon does (winning and WDC material).

What's left then? Verstappen? Well, keeping in fashion with 'you're only as good as your last race', reliability at RBR is putting it's weight again on the relationship between Max and RBR-Honda.

They've got a year to go by though, but Merc would be bonkers not to concider Verstappen, as would Max too. But, as mentioned a few times before, Mercedes' dominance is ending.

We've got some more GP's to see to concider that really the case, but Ferrari showed this race and the former that they're in the game. RBR, if tech doesn't let them down, also showed they're 'almost there'. They're gonna have to be there by 2021 though.

What to me surprised me the most was Renault's pace. I have no clue where that came from, but this time it seemed very genuine pace. It would be quite the stir to see 2021 coming up and Mercedes offering a seat to Ocon only to see him turn it down because by then, Renault has found itself in position for winning.

I honestly do hope so.

Ferrari vs RedBull vs Mercedes vs Renault? with wins going on spread between all 8 cars? now that sounds perfect to me. Either way, 2021 will see profound design changes so it's paramount that all manufacturers find itself having their engines on par.

Albon has proven himself in 2 races though that he belongs at RedBull. Very happy with that. He'll race for 2020 safely.

[Scorpaguy]

George Russell...expect a call from Merc/Ferrari.

[FrukostScones]

BOT still in Mercedes 2020 is not the right decision.
they should have built on RUS already...

[DChemTech]

Ferrari is going to have a WC in the form of Hamilton in the car in 2021, alongside bloody blazingly fast LeClerc.

The problem Mercedes is facing indeed is that they're going to lose their prime and WC driver.
Bottas in Italy once again showed why he isn't WC material. He lacks. He doesn't have it.
He is and always will be a number 2 driver. A coulthard, a barrichello.

But Mercedes needs a driver better than that.

The question popping up then will be, will they take that in Vettel?
There's the obvious pro's. German driver. 4-time WDC. Fast. Experienced. I'd rate him as a Rosberg+.
So yeah, fitting. Knowing they have grabbed a whopping load of titles, victories, etc. you might even
argue that missing the 'hunger' from Seb is acceptable. Not that Seb doesn't want to win with Mercedes,
or even a title. But he couldn't make it with Ferrari, and gets beaten 'to a pulp' by LeClerc after getting beaten
'to a pulp' by Ricciardo back @ RedBull.

Which then again shows the difference 'hunger' makes in a driver.

And that's where Daniel comes into play. He has beaten Vettel at RedBull hard. Ricciardo is blazingly fast, experienced,
keeps a level head, is unparalleled in his braking overtaking manouvres, and smells blood. He is very much a WDC capable
driver, which Valterri clearly just isn't.

Now the problem is, would Danny fit the Merc team? Personally, i think he'd fit better with Ferrari, especially alongside LeClerc.
Mercedes imho is a far more 'sterile' environment where Daniel is a very non-sterile person. Again, Vettel imho would fit perfect.

Still, i think it's a very, very huge possibility that Hamilton is going to Ferrari. Sooner or later. And sooner hasn't happened,
i'm thinking later is going to arrive in 2021.

So back to basic: Mercedes NEEDS a WDC capable driver next to their 'good boy' lap dog number 2 barrichello scout.

2020 will prove whether Ocon is as talented as some are claiming he is. If he can't beat Daniel, then the choice is made easier.
Either way, Daniel doesn't have that question mark above his head, Ocon does (winning and WDC material).

What's left then? Verstappen? Well, keeping in fashion with 'you're only as good as your last race', reliability at RBR is putting it's
weight again on the relationship between Max and RBR-Honda.

They've got a year to go by though, but Merc would be bonkers not to concider Verstappen, as would Max too. But, as mentioned
a few times before, Mercedes' dominance is ending.

We've got some more GP's to see to concider that really the case, but Ferrari showed this race and the former that they're in the game.
RBR, if tech doesn't let them down, also showed they're 'almost there'. They're gonna have to be there by 2021 though.

What to me surprised me the most was Renault's pace. I have no clue where that came from, but this time it seemed very genuine pace.
It would be quite the stir to see 2021 coming up and Mercedes offering a seat to Ocon only to see him turn it down because by then,
Renault has found itself in position for winning.

I honestly do hope so.

Ferrari vs RedBull vs Mercedes vs Renault? with wins going on spread between all 8 cars? now that sounds perfect to me.
Either way, 2021 will see profound design changes so it's paramount that all manufacturers find itself having their engines on par.

Albon has proven himself in 2 races though that he belongs at RedBull. Very happy with that. He'll race for 2020 safely.

Your whole analysis does hinge on the assumption Hamilton is off to Ferrari in 2021, which is far from a certainty (in fact, I would not count on it - mercedes is typically on top when it comes to major rule changes). Assuming Hamilton does stay, bottas is a fine driver for the place he's in.

[raymondu999]

Ferrari is going to have a WC in the form of Hamilton in the car in 2021, alongside bloody blazingly fast LeClerc.

The problem Mercedes is facing indeed is that they're going to lose their prime and WC driver.
Bottas in Italy once again showed why he isn't WC material. He lacks. He doesn't have it.
He is and always will be a number 2 driver. A coulthard, a barrichello.

But Mercedes needs a driver better than that.

The question popping up then will be, will they take that in Vettel?
There's the obvious pro's. German driver. 4-time WDC. Fast. Experienced. I'd rate him as a Rosberg+.
So yeah, fitting. Knowing they have grabbed a whopping load of titles, victories, etc. you might even
argue that missing the 'hunger' from Seb is acceptable. Not that Seb doesn't want to win with Mercedes,
or even a title. But he couldn't make it with Ferrari, and gets beaten 'to a pulp' by LeClerc after getting beaten
'to a pulp' by Ricciardo back @ RedBull.

Which then again shows the difference 'hunger' makes in a driver.

And that's where Daniel comes into play. He has beaten Vettel at RedBull hard. Ricciardo is blazingly fast, experienced,
keeps a level head, is unparalleled in his braking overtaking manouvres, and smells blood. He is very much a WDC capable
driver, which Valterri clearly just isn't.

Now the problem is, would Danny fit the Merc team? Personally, i think he'd fit better with Ferrari, especially alongside LeClerc.
Mercedes imho is a far more 'sterile' environment where Daniel is a very non-sterile person. Again, Vettel imho would fit perfect.

Still, i think it's a very, very huge possibility that Hamilton is going to Ferrari. Sooner or later. And sooner hasn't happened,
i'm thinking later is going to arrive in 2021.

So back to basic: Mercedes NEEDS a WDC capable driver next to their 'good boy' lap dog number 2 barrichello scout.

2020 will prove whether Ocon is as talented as some are claiming he is. If he can't beat Daniel, then the choice is made easier.
Either way, Daniel doesn't have that question mark above his head, Ocon does (winning and WDC material).

What's left then? Verstappen? Well, keeping in fashion with 'you're only as good as your last race', reliability at RBR is putting it's
weight again on the relationship between Max and RBR-Honda.

They've got a year to go by though, but Merc would be bonkers not to concider Verstappen, as would Max too. But, as mentioned
a few times before, Mercedes' dominance is ending.

We've got some more GP's to see to concider that really the case, but Ferrari showed this race and the former that they're in the game.
RBR, if tech doesn't let them down, also showed they're 'almost there'. They're gonna have to be there by 2021 though.

What to me surprised me the most was Renault's pace. I have no clue where that came from, but this time it seemed very genuine pace.
It would be quite the stir to see 2021 coming up and Mercedes offering a seat to Ocon only to see him turn it down because by then,
Renault has found itself in position for winning.

I honestly do hope so.

Ferrari vs RedBull vs Mercedes vs Renault? with wins going on spread between all 8 cars? now that sounds perfect to me.
Either way, 2021 will see profound design changes so it's paramount that all manufacturers find itself having their engines on par.

Albon has proven himself in 2 races though that he belongs at RedBull. Very happy with that. He'll race for 2020 safely.

Your whole analysis does hinge on the assumption Hamilton is off to Ferrari in 2021, which is far from a certainty (in fact, I would not count on it - mercedes is typically on top when it comes to major rule changes). Assuming Hamilton does stay, bottas is a fine driver for the place he's in.

Agreed with above post; but assuming for the discussion that he will take off to maranello, then I think the rest is sound. Idk what it is with Seb and rookies, but it seems to me that whenever he doesnt have an “alpha” car - except for 2015 when he was motivated by a new challenge - he doesn’t have hunger as much. It’s as if (imo) he doesn’t care about extra wins unless it ends up in a title. But I do also think the 2014 and 2019 cars he drove aren’t quite as suited to his driving style, which coupled with the impeccable timing of partnering “relative” rookies (rookies to top cars in f1) has made it look worse than it probably is.

[loner]

i posted this in RedBull thread i'm post it again here

i never understood all the talk about SV return to RBR .. CL is destroying him in ferrari what would make RBR contract him again ?!!
anyway Mrako is denying SV or Hulk will be in RBR in 2020...
he say the other seat in RBR will be decided after COTA .. i find it big chance for both Albon and Kvyat since Kvyat already showing strong pace and performance consistently in STR, so if Albon doesn't develop till COTA its Kvyat seat.
also speaking about promoting Tsunoda to F2 in 2020 which i think a step for a future STR debut.
https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... evanz.html

[Jolle]

i posted this in RedBull thread i'm post it again here

i never understood all the talk about SV return to RBR .. CL is destroying him in ferrari what would make RBR contract him again ?!!
anyway Mrako is denying SV or Hulk will be in RBR in 2020...
he say the other seat in RBR will be decided after COTA .. i find it big chance for both Albon and Kvyat since Kvyat already showing strong pace and performance consistently in STR, so if Albon doesn't develop till COTA its Kvyat seat.
also speaking about promoting Tsunoda to F2 in 2020 which i think a step for a future STR debut.
https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... evanz.html

Vettel isn’t driving like a 40 mln a year four time world champion for a while now. He hasn’t upped his game like Hamilton did. He’s got one last year to land him a good new contract else it’s the Kimi route.

[Manoah2u]

And indeed, no way that Vettel is going back to RBR.

[alexx_88]

Hamilton is an emotional person and I think would love to have all that Monza love for himself instead of being booed. However, if I were Ferrari, would it make any sense to take him on 18 months from now? I don't think the pairing between Hamilton and a Leclerc that's flying towards his prime would work. I think Ricciardo is a much better fit in the red car alongside Leclerc, although I think we'll be surprised when we finally see what sort of ruthlessness is hidden between Charles' boyish charm. What amazed me most with him over the past 18 months is how fast he learns. If you listen to his interviews, his approach is very similar to the one you see at high-level executives in the business world. It's like he learns instantly from any mistake. Impressive!

What we've seen with top teams is that the only moment they are interested in getting another alpha-driver in is when their current one doesn't perform anymore. Ferrari wanted Leclerc because of Vettel's mistakes. RB took Verstapen on because they smelled that he wasn't something really really special. On the other hand, Mercedes had absolutely no interest to even consider getting anyone better than Bottas as Lewis' teammate. From that perspective, I think it looks like Ferrari and RB are locked for the next few years, with the only possible opening being a Hamilton retirement. But I genuinely don't see that happening before the end of 2021, on a presumable total collapse of Mercedes' competitiveness.

[Jolle]

Hamilton is an emotional person and I think would love to have all that Monza love for himself instead of being booed. However, if I were Ferrari, would it make any sense to take him on 18 months from now? I don't think the pairing between Hamilton and a Leclerc that's flying towards his prime would work. I think Ricciardo is a much better fit in the red car alongside Leclerc, although I think we'll be surprised when we finally see what sort of ruthlessness is hidden between Charles' boyish charm. What amazed me most with him over the past 18 months is how fast he learns. If you listen to his interviews, his approach is very similar to the one you see at high-level executives in the business world. It's like he learns instantly from any mistake. Impressive!

What we've seen with top teams is that the only moment they are interested in getting another alpha-driver in is when their current one doesn't perform anymore. Ferrari wanted Leclerc because of Vettel's mistakes. RB took Verstapen on because they smelled that he wasn't something really really special. On the other hand, Mercedes had absolutely no interest to even consider getting anyone better than Bottas as Lewis' teammate. From that perspective, I think it looks like Ferrari and RB are locked for the next few years, with the only possible opening being a Hamilton retirement. But I genuinely don't see that happening before the end of 2021, on a presumable total collapse of Mercedes' competitiveness.

Bottas is actually doing a good job in his role. He’s quite comfortable second in the championship behind the number one driver, he’s right there to pick up points right behind Hamilton and doesn’t oncomfortabel challenge him.

[alexx_88]

Totally agreed and, as I said, the only reason top teams are looking at top drivers is when they think there's someone else on the market that can easily outperform their current lineup or when they're not satisfied with the performance of their lead driver. That's why RB got Max and that's why Ferrari ended up with Leclerc.

Bottas seems to be perfectly calibrated to Hamilton's skills. The type of driver that routinely brings back the points, with no off-days, but no high-days either.

[Big Tea]

Totally agreed and, as I said, the only reason top teams are looking at top drivers is when they think there's someone else on the market that can easily outperform their current lineup or when they're not satisfied with the performance of their lead driver. That's why RB got Max and that's why Ferrari ended up with Leclerc.

Bottas seems to be perfectly calibrated to Hamilton's skills. The type of driver that routinely brings back the points, with no off-days, but no high-days either.

And (seemingly) no personal or ego 'edge' which makes decisions and day to day activities in the team more comfortable. It is not just his in car 'rightness' for a team that should be considered but all round fit

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, id go as far as saying the only people complaining about Bottas are just Hamilton haters deep down and they blame Bottas for 'letting' Hamilton win so frequently.