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The 4x WDC has been somewhat off-colour recently. What do we think the reasons are? He made some errors in his early years in F1, but nothing like the errors he's made in the last 18 months. Are we simply looking at a driver reaching the end of his career in F1? I know he's denied it various times, but surely if the form doesn't improve, retirement has to be on the cards? Can we seriously expect him to spend a whole year playing second fiddle to Leclerc in 2020?
One trick pony with a dead horse. In my humble opinion.
Yeah agree. I remember very well back in 2013 a fair few friends telling me how Seb is going to break Schumachers records and is easily the best driver on the grid.
No one says it anymore.
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He is simply trying to outperform himself. This year it is because of the Ferrari itself and his impressive teammate(who also had his fair share of incidents, by the way), last two years it was because of a title challenge.
He is way too quick to 'panic' in less than ideal situations. ie. Turkey 2010 where he and his teammate collided. The collision was completely avoidable. Same goes for Singapore 2017, in that weekend they were sure to finish ahead of the Mercedes', yet when Verstappen had a pretty good start Vettel felt the need to cut him off. It seems like Vettel thinks a battle, race or championship is over at that point, like he can never ever bounce back from that later in the race or championship.
In the years he didn't 'need' to outperform himself he was driving very well.
Losing the WDC last year really seemed to knock the wind out of him, I wonder if the whole "first to five" thing was giving him some additional motivation (and pressure). He certainly seems more out of sorts this year than he has been before, the error at Monza was just weird.
He is simply trying to outperform himself. This year it is because of the Ferrari itself and his impressive teammate(who also had his fair share of incidents, by the way), last two years it was because of a title challenge.
He is way too quick to 'panic' in less than ideal situations. ie. Turkey 2010 where he and his teammate collided. The collision was completely avoidable. Same goes for Singapore 2017, in that weekend they were sure to finish ahead of the Mercedes', yet when Verstappen had a pretty good start Vettel felt the need to cut him off. It seems like Vettel thinks a battle, race or championship is over at that point, like he can never ever bounce back from that later in the race or championship.
In the years he didn't 'need' to outperform himself he was driving very well.
This.
Every race he seems to need to 'prove himself' and always just oversteps the boundary, be it handling or acceptable standards.
His head is not in the right place. He is quite capable of being in the top 5 if he drives to his potential, but enough is never enough for him and he needs public acceptance. I really think a spell in a midfield team would help him out.
Shame Mclaren is sorted, he would be a good fit there, what about ( Sauber ) alfa with Kimi?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
1. The last 2 seasons, Vettel did reasonably well, even leading at half way point. However, Ham was flawless. Perhaps, that really got to him on an emotional level.
2. Vettel has won when the car had good grip, particularly rear end. This years car is lacking in grip and tyre performance.
Unsure if Ferrari will have a contending car for next season. It seems to be a better bet to focus on 2021 than 2020.
I don't think you can pin it on one thing, Someone like Vettel (and Hamilton as well) need stuff to be in tune to perform. Take Hamilton at McLaren for instance, the more he grew out of this system, the less focus he had on track and when the silly mistakes came. With putting another WC next to him instead of a "number two", he felt betrayed, combined with the personal growth and micromanaging from Dennis and you have 2011.
For Vettel, RedBull was perfect. They are build around their drivers. They let them free, do their management and have a strong father kind like figure in the form of Helmut Marko. They expect mistakes because that is what RedBull is, finding the limit and going over it is part of that. Since Brawn left, Ferrari is about one thing, Ferrari. The driver is there to make the car perform. Different kinds of pressure. If you have a big stupid crash in a RedBull, it's almost cool. In a Ferrari you are murdered in the newspapers.
Within the team, Vettel likes to be the most important thing, everything should work for him, like Alonso. Total dedication, including teammates. if they don't, as team mates, they are pushed aside (look at Weber). Now he twice had teammates he couldn't push. Ricciardo and Leclerc. In Ricciaro's case, it was a bad season for RedBull, Vettel wanted out, etc etc. but with Leclerc, he can't push back. He tried to convince the team to give him number one status before the season (sign of fear) but couldn't back it up with performance. He is the 4 times WC and has to perform while Leclerc still is nothing, free, and very ambitious. He had been very clear on the radio, in messages: "move over Vettel",
Then there is the fight with Hamilton. Hamilton won't let you rest. Last time he was "ok" with his position on track was spa last year. You have to be at your best every week, every session and every lap. This wears you out. Combined with Verstappen who is also always close and now pressure within the team, he's just tired. In the past few season he always had Kimi to fall back on, quiet, fast but not challenging. Now it comes from all sides. Almost like your wife is sleeping with your best friend, your boss given you one last chance and your kids hate you.
IMO he needs a great car, favourable treatment from his team and a bang average team mate to succeed.
He’s obviously a very good driver (tier 1b?) but I think he was quite fortunate to be in the right place at the right time with Red Bull (great car, regs that suited his driving style, average team mate, clearly prioritised by team) and now really looks like someone who got promoted way above their station and has been trying too hard but failing to justify it ever since. When it’s not all perfect conditions with the car or he’s got an unyielding team mate, then it all unravels a bit. He doesn’t seem to like a challenge.
In many ways it’s slightly sad to see him now, like someone on a downward spiral they can’t correct, but he’s been an unfortunate victim of his own success, I think. Maybe also the beneficiary then victim of Red Bull’s ruthlessness toward drivers as well?
Hopefully he has another few wins in him though, because he’s really in no mans land now. Bested by Hamilton and also getting swallowed up by Verstappen and Leclerc.
I always thought Vettel was great driver, but certainly not good enough to win 4x WDC. That was always my statement on him. He was never ever being better than Schumacher, which is something his fans always talked. That he is on that level.
While, yes, it is sad to see him spin out and make mistakes I am personally not suprised because I never believed in hype. I was more furious and frustrated on people who actually did but couldnt prove them that was the case.
First sign of this we saw when guy promoted from HRT basically destroyed him as current WDC. Since then passed half a decade. Think about that. Being oblivious certainly doesnt have it's limits
I think people are very harsh on him. He, like many others (even Schumacher required a very specific nose heavy balance which he was able to dial in basically at his own private circuit in the days of unlimited track testing), is a driver who seems to need a very specific handling balance to extract the most out of the car. He was brilliant between 2009-13 because he got on top of the double-decker and exhaust-blown diffusers, he then mastered the Pirelli tyres in their first season (was the only driver to visit the factory) he just hasn't got on with the turbo formula in the same way as Mercedes and Hamilton. Drivers have ups and downs, Hamilton had his low point relatively early in his career. He also won a race in a non-top-3 car. Which is more than any of the other current winners on the grid can say.
He seems a bit desperate to emulate Schumacher and win a title with Ferrari. Not that they've necessarily had a car capable of it. I think there's a unique pressure at Ferrari and there's also (from the outside) a less structured approach at that team than the British outfits. I wonder if a change of environment would do him good - he wouldn't get the Ferrari championship he so desperately craves though.
#aerogandalf "There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica
I think the poor guy is in a downward spiral at the moment. You can't be a 4 x WDC without being a bit special, but for me his major flaw is the 'red mist'. There are times when thinking goes out the window and he just reacts, sometimes he gets away with it but when he doesn't it's usually catastrophic.
His problem now is that he's trying so hard to recover his form that 'red mist' moments are more likely. When he has one that's catastrophic he tries harder in the next race, and so the downward spiral continues.
I think Ferrari need to stop him competing with Charles for the rest of this season, and concentrate instead on becoming a consistent points scorer. Once he's finishing consistently in the upper half of the points his confidence will return so that by next season he'll feel that he's performing well again and can challenge for the WDC.
The 4x WDC has been somewhat off-colour recently. What do we think the reasons are? He made some errors in his early years in F1, but nothing like the errors he's made in the last 18 months. Are we simply looking at a driver reaching the end of his career in F1? I know he's denied it various times, but surely if the form doesn't improve, retirement has to be on the cards? Can we seriously expect him to spend a whole year playing second fiddle to Leclerc in 2020?
As we always knew, Sebastian cannot adapt to cars with an unstable rear end. So no surpirse to me. The other issue is he cannot deal with competition in similar cars.
I don't think you can pin it on one thing, Someone like Vettel (and Hamilton as well) need stuff to be in tune to perform. Take Hamilton at McLaren for instance, the more he grew out of this system, the less focus he had on track and when the silly mistakes came. With putting another WC next to him instead of a "number two", he felt betrayed, combined with the personal growth and micromanaging from Dennis and you have 2011.
Is similar but there are big differences. Hamilton's speed was not affected. He was still the only non-redbull pole sitter, still got three wins and still had faster pace than Button. He just crashed a lot lol.
Vettel is now slow in Q and race, mistake prones and mentally dishevelled.
