2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

[Restomaniac]

It's not true that he had no confidence in his team for today's race either. Vettel was put in 2nd place by pit stop strategy. This was a team decision so they wanted Leclerc to win the race.

So you’re calling the Ferrari team principle a liar. Cool.

I don't even know what he told.

That it wasn’t done to give LeClerc the lead.

LeClerc still looked awfully unhappy in interviews though. Clearly he is happy with his team and has tons of confidence in them

[sprint car76]

I got to admit it's kind of amusing that ferrari has the same problem that merc used to have with rosberg and hamilton. I'm sure ferrari and red bull were getting their chuckles while toto was trying to control his drivers. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Next year the headache is going to continue.

[NathanOlder]

I don't get why people bash Leclerc.

The plan was clearly to help the team get a 1-2 and he even handed Seb the lead without fighting.
It was more than obvious that the plan afterwards was to open the gap to Ham to make the switch. Seb was the one that didn't obey (one of many times, what an exemplary employee).

Yes maybe he is being too vocal sometimes, but he wasn't the one at fault. It was only logical that they give him back the lead but I think it shouldn't come to the undercut.

This totally 100%. Charles stayed left through turn 1, stayed left on the following straight, didn't defend at all against seb in to turn 2. The deal was obviously Help Seb if Charles moved right, he would have been helping Lewis. So he stayed left. That meant Charles was left wide open. This was ok as they agreed that if Seb got in front he would give the place back.... which he didnt.

Charles sat around 1.3 behind for a while. It was 1.5 at the end of lap 8. Clearly not being allowed through, this also would have hurt his tyres. He then backed off or couldn't hold on due to the tyres probably.

Charles had every right to be pissed off, he was screwed twice in 7 days. Vettels break down is what he deserved, Ferrari losing the win is what they deserved for letting their drivers do what they did. They still wanted Charles in front, hence the long undercut. Yet they didn't have the balls to tell the spoilt child on the radio.

No one is bigger than the team except when the lead driver wants his way

[Mamba]

His first response on the radio to being asked to give the place up was roughly speaking "okay, but maybe we wait a couple of laps for a gap".

Vettel clear as day knew he was supposed to give up the position if he ends up first, no driver in history agrees immediately to give up the position when asked to let their team mate through. He then said, "I would have got him anyway", and I forget the other message now but he was basically making excuses to not have to give the position back.

But his first response not being to tell the team to smeg off when asked to give up a place proves without any doubt that he knew he was supposed to give the position back. The idea they wouldn't have considered it, lol, no, literally everyone including Leclerc yesterday was saying 1st place isn't even that great because the slipstream is so strong and he was purposefully giving it to the car with the highest straight line speed. It was clearly a possibility and it was also obvious that the car with the higher speed and slipstream would likely get ahead and that slowing to prevent that was going to open them up to mistakes in T2 rather than just letting him through cleanly and giving it back later.

Think to Ferrari last year in Monza, if you try to slow to give up a place early you create room for someone to come at you as Hamilton did. Vettel should have defended Kimi in Monza for some laps till they had a chance to switch them but instead he went stupid and ruined his race. Ferrari planed on it, expected he'd probably get ahead and planned to swap them back and clearly Vettel was aware of it.

When Vettel started to speed up rather than let the gap close and started making excuses about how he got ahead on his own rather than via help the team did the right thing. Left him alone and forced it via strategy rather than rely on Vettel to do what he agreed to do on track.

The issue here is Vettel was the faster car at that point. Even if a swap was agreed they would be throwing away a possible win. What if after their engineered swap Vettel again proved to be slightly faster? Would they then focus on the win and ask for another swap or let them race? Why not let them race at the start? This will cost Ferrari dearly soon if they don't clip Leclerc's wings. Especially now that it seems on Race day Seb is a possible match after the upgrade package.

Ferrari need to back the faster driver on any given day - no matter if it is no 5 or 16. If it were not for the failure of Seb's engine and George's brakes they could still have conceded a win had Seb still been the faster car and they'd let them race with soft tyred Mercs coming...

[DChemTech]

His first response on the radio to being asked to give the place up was roughly speaking "okay, but maybe we wait a couple of laps for a gap".

Vettel clear as day knew he was supposed to give up the position if he ends up first, no driver in history agrees immediately to give up the position when asked to let their team mate through. He then said, "I would have got him anyway", and I forget the other message now but he was basically making excuses to not have to give the position back.

But his first response not being to tell the team to smeg off when asked to give up a place proves without any doubt that he knew he was supposed to give the position back. The idea they wouldn't have considered it, lol, no, literally everyone including Leclerc yesterday was saying 1st place isn't even that great because the slipstream is so strong and he was purposefully giving it to the car with the highest straight line speed. It was clearly a possibility and it was also obvious that the car with the higher speed and slipstream would likely get ahead and that slowing to prevent that was going to open them up to mistakes in T2 rather than just letting him through cleanly and giving it back later.

Think to Ferrari last year in Monza, if you try to slow to give up a place early you create room for someone to come at you as Hamilton did. Vettel should have defended Kimi in Monza for some laps till they had a chance to switch them but instead he went stupid and ruined his race. Ferrari planed on it, expected he'd probably get ahead and planned to swap them back and clearly Vettel was aware of it.

When Vettel started to speed up rather than let the gap close and started making excuses about how he got ahead on his own rather than via help the team did the right thing. Left him alone and forced it via strategy rather than rely on Vettel to do what he agreed to do on track.

The issue here is Vettel was the faster car at that point. Even if a swap was agreed they would be throwing away a possible win. What if after their engineered swap Vettel again proved to be slightly faster? Would they then focus on the win and ask for another swap or let them race? Why not let them race at the start? This will cost Ferrari dearly soon if they don't clip Leclerc's wings. Especially now that it seems on Race day Seb is a possible match after the upgrade package.

Ferrari need to back the faster driver on any given day - no matter if it is no 5 or 16. If it were not for the failure of Seb's engine and George's brakes they could still have conceded a win had Seb still been the faster car and they'd let them race with soft tyred Mercs coming...

Could not agree more. Vettel was the faster one one race today, and they need to let him race his race.

[RZS10]

What if Ferrari hadn't swapped Vettel and Leclerc back - would Vettel have taken the car back to the pits thus leaving Leclerc the win?

Vettel himself said he lost the MGU-K - it is possible to finish the race without it (see RIC at Monaco)
IIRC the team advised him to come back to the pits, instead he parked the car in a run-off area (later claiming that he put it there because he thought there wouldn't be an SC because of it).

Ultimately Vettel's decision to prioritize damage limitation of his PU over the team's success lead to the Mercedes 1-2...

There's no way to tell whether Vettel was actually the faster driver btw, maybe Charles could have opened a bigger gap? Looking at laptimes whilst one car is in dirty air is obviously not representative.

[Restomaniac]

His first response on the radio to being asked to give the place up was roughly speaking "okay, but maybe we wait a couple of laps for a gap".

Vettel clear as day knew he was supposed to give up the position if he ends up first, no driver in history agrees immediately to give up the position when asked to let their team mate through. He then said, "I would have got him anyway", and I forget the other message now but he was basically making excuses to not have to give the position back.

But his first response not being to tell the team to smeg off when asked to give up a place proves without any doubt that he knew he was supposed to give the position back. The idea they wouldn't have considered it, lol, no, literally everyone including Leclerc yesterday was saying 1st place isn't even that great because the slipstream is so strong and he was purposefully giving it to the car with the highest straight line speed. It was clearly a possibility and it was also obvious that the car with the higher speed and slipstream would likely get ahead and that slowing to prevent that was going to open them up to mistakes in T2 rather than just letting him through cleanly and giving it back later.

Think to Ferrari last year in Monza, if you try to slow to give up a place early you create room for someone to come at you as Hamilton did. Vettel should have defended Kimi in Monza for some laps till they had a chance to switch them but instead he went stupid and ruined his race. Ferrari planed on it, expected he'd probably get ahead and planned to swap them back and clearly Vettel was aware of it.

When Vettel started to speed up rather than let the gap close and started making excuses about how he got ahead on his own rather than via help the team did the right thing. Left him alone and forced it via strategy rather than rely on Vettel to do what he agreed to do on track.

The issue here is Vettel was the faster car at that point. Even if a swap was agreed they would be throwing away a possible win. What if after their engineered swap Vettel again proved to be slightly faster? Would they then focus on the win and ask for another swap or let them race? Why not let them race at the start? This will cost Ferrari dearly soon if they don't clip Leclerc's wings. Especially now that it seems on Race day Seb is a possible match after the upgrade package.

Ferrari need to back the faster driver on any given day - no matter if it is no 5 or 16. If it were not for the failure of Seb's engine and George's brakes they could still have conceded a win had Seb still been the faster car and they'd let them race with soft tyred Mercs coming...

The faster car last week was LeClerc however Ferrari had no problems screwing him over.

[Restomaniac]

What if Ferrari hadn't swapped Vettel and Leclerc back - would Vettel have taken the car back to the pits thus leaving Leclerc the win?

Vettel himself said he lost the MGU-K - it is possible to finish the race without it (see RIC at Monaco)
IIRC the team advised him to come back to the pits, instead he parked the car in a run-off area (later claiming that he put it there because he thought there wouldn't be an SC because of it).

Ultimately Vettel's decision to prioritize damage limitation of his PU over the team's success lead to the Mercedes 1-2...

There's no way to tell whether Vettel was actually the faster driver btw, maybe Charles could have opened a bigger gap? Looking at laptimes whilst one car is in dirty air is obviously not representative.

TBH there was 2 messages.
1st said ‘come back to the pits’
2nd said ‘stop the car now’.

[spin1/2]

#82. 9 to go.

[NathanOlder]

What we don't know is if VETTEL surrendered all rights to that first place if it were to happen as it did today.
I get the feeling the plan was not for VETTEL to be in front at all but simply to overtake HAMILTON.

It then leads the final question - What was the gameplan if VETTEL overtook LeClerc? Because VETTELS answer back is interesing. He said "I would have gotten by even without LecLerc" - Gotten by HAMILTON - NOT LECLERC. Which leads me to believe what happened today was not even considered .

His first response on the radio to being asked to give the place up was roughly speaking "okay, but maybe we wait a couple of laps for a gap".

Vettel clear as day knew he was supposed to give up the position if he ends up first, no driver in history agrees immediately to give up the position when asked to let their team mate through. He then said, "I would have got him anyway", and I forget the other message now but he was basically making excuses to not have to give the position back.

But his first response not being to tell the team to smeg off when asked to give up a place proves without any doubt that he knew he was supposed to give the position back. The idea they wouldn't have considered it, lol, no, literally everyone including Leclerc yesterday was saying 1st place isn't even that great because the slipstream is so strong and he was purposefully giving it to the car with the highest straight line speed. It was clearly a possibility and it was also obvious that the car with the higher speed and slipstream would likely get ahead and that slowing to prevent that was going to open them up to mistakes in T2 rather than just letting him through cleanly and giving it back later.

Think to Ferrari last year in Monza, if you try to slow to give up a place early you create room for someone to come at you as Hamilton did. Vettel should have defended Kimi in Monza for some laps till they had a chance to switch them but instead he went stupid and ruined his race. Ferrari planed on it, expected he'd probably get ahead and planned to swap them back and clearly Vettel was aware of it.

When Vettel started to speed up rather than let the gap close and started making excuses about how he got ahead on his own rather than via help the team did the right thing. Left him alone and forced it via strategy rather than rely on Vettel to do what he agreed to do on track.

Also worth noting the VSC didn't ruin the race in reality. If Russell's brakes were going to fail, they were going to fail under braking so 95% likely Merc's just pit 3-4 laps later under safety car instead of the VSC.

The VSC was bad luck but good prep by Merc by being on that medium tire and being out there able to take advantage.

Well said mate. the whole thing spot on.

[Juzh]

What if Ferrari hadn't swapped Vettel and Leclerc back - would Vettel have taken the car back to the pits thus leaving Leclerc the win?

Vettel himself said he lost the MGU-K - it is possible to finish the race without it (see RIC at Monaco)
IIRC the team advised him to come back to the pits, instead he parked the car in a run-off area (later claiming that he put it there because he thought there wouldn't be an SC because of it).

Ultimately Vettel's decision to prioritize damage limitation of his PU over the team's success lead to the Mercedes 1-2...

There's no way to tell whether Vettel was actually the faster driver btw, maybe Charles could have opened a bigger gap? Looking at laptimes whilst one car is in dirty air is obviously not representative.

What a load of rubbish. Vettel was first instructed to box after K failure, then was told seconds later to "STOP NOW", and he did. This was broadcast on the main feed so I dont know which race you were watching, and imediately sets you off as being ignorant on the matter.
Yes, races can be finished without the K, but you would be last in in 10-15 laps on track like russia, so not worth doing. It's also more than likely other engine componenets were at risk, which is why they they told vettel to stop at once on track.

Vettel was 4,5s ahead before leclerc pitstop, and that's including vettel losing 0.5s lapping kubica. Only ignorant people would claim leclerc was faster in first stint.

[LM10]

So you’re calling the Ferrari team principle a liar. Cool.

I don't even know what he told.

That it wasn’t done to give LeClerc the lead.

LeClerc still looked awfully unhappy in interviews though. Clearly he is happy with his team and has tons of confidence in them

In this case, yes, I don't believe in those words. Clearly an attempt to not heat things up medially. It was obvious that they waited for the gap to be big enough to pit Vettel. He was losing big chunks of time to Hamilton, but they still waited until the gap between Vettel and Leclerc was at about 24.5 seconds.

[MtthsMlw]

What if Ferrari hadn't swapped Vettel and Leclerc back - would Vettel have taken the car back to the pits thus leaving Leclerc the win?

Vettel himself said he lost the MGU-K - it is possible to finish the race without it (see RIC at Monaco)
IIRC the team advised him to come back to the pits, instead he parked the car in a run-off area (later claiming that he put it there because he thought there wouldn't be an SC because of it).

Ultimately Vettel's decision to prioritize damage limitation of his PU over the team's success lead to the Mercedes 1-2...

There's no way to tell whether Vettel was actually the faster driver btw, maybe Charles could have opened a bigger gap? Looking at laptimes whilst one car is in dirty air is obviously not representative.

What a load of rubbish. Vettel was first instructed to box after K failure, then was told seconds later to "STOP NOW", and he did. This was broadcast on the main feed so I dont know which race you were watching, and imediately sets you off as being ignorant on the matter.
Yes, races can be finished without the K, but you would be last in in 10-15 laps on track like russia, so not worth doing. It's also more than likely other engine componenets were at risk, which is why they they told vettel to stop at once on track.

Vettel was 4,5s ahead before leclerc pitstop, and that's including vettel losing 0.5s lapping kubica. Only ignorant people would claim leclerc was faster in first stint.

Vettel's car was also electrically unsafe, that's why he jumped off like that. Dangerous to keep driving.

[NathanOlder]

What if Ferrari hadn't swapped Vettel and Leclerc back - would Vettel have taken the car back to the pits thus leaving Leclerc the win?

Vettel himself said he lost the MGU-K - it is possible to finish the race without it (see RIC at Monaco)
IIRC the team advised him to come back to the pits, instead he parked the car in a run-off area (later claiming that he put it there because he thought there wouldn't be an SC because of it).

Ultimately Vettel's decision to prioritize damage limitation of his PU over the team's success lead to the Mercedes 1-2...

There's no way to tell whether Vettel was actually the faster driver btw, maybe Charles could have opened a bigger gap? Looking at laptimes whilst one car is in dirty air is obviously not representative.

What a load of rubbish. Vettel was first instructed to box after K failure, then was told seconds later to "STOP NOW", and he did. This was broadcast on the main feed so I dont know which race you were watching, and imediately sets you off as being ignorant on the matter.
Yes, races can be finished without the K, but you would be last in in 10-15 laps on track like russia, so not worth doing. It's also more than likely other engine componenets were at risk, which is why they they told vettel to stop at once on track.

Vettel was 4,5s ahead before leclerc pitstop, and that's including vettel losing 0.5s lapping kubica. Only ignorant people would claim leclerc was faster in first stint.

Was it not worth trashing that PU to win the race though?

[Mamba]

The faster car last week was LeClerc however Ferrari had no problems screwing him over.

This topic has been well discussed already. They way things panned out meant Vettel benefitted massively by a combination of fresh tyres, and great outlap and old worn tyres on Leclerc. If Ferrari continue to act they way they did today, they still won't win a championship. Engineering swaps is not on and in the end fate let them pay for it. They need to back the faster driver. If it was Charles in the second stint, then let him by. Secure the win at all cost.