2019 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 27 - 29 September

[zibby43]

I have to say though, i personally expect Mercedes to very strong at Suzuka. If they arent, then wow at Ferrari.

Agreed. AMuS ticker reported that Merc will have their final big upgrade at Suzuka.

Thank you for the reply.

[izzy]

Re: the VSC thing. S'funny how it put the guy in the fastest car behind slower cars which should have resulted in exciting overtaking / racing. But it didn't. People then annoyed because the VSC "robbed" a driver of a win. And yet people want to have races effectively decided by just this type of fast-behind-slow situation.

2021 cars

and Max and Valtteri got past midfield cars, in fact Max starting behind them was a good part of the racing, being not in SPEED ORDER . Plus it's not that clear that Lewis was really slower than Charles, and Mercedes it looked like gave Valtteri a defensive mode that saved up his deployment for the main straight. And the dastardly Plan isn't that Ferraris can automatically get past Mercedes, after all

[dans79]

Apparently no one remembers multi 12 a few races before where Webber didnt listen?

Ferrari doesn't employ Webber, so anything he did is irrelevant.

Ok, maybe it was too difficult for you to grasp. If you are in a team and your team mate disobeys a teamorder. Would you do it a bit later? I think 90% of the people would not even consider it. That is my point, the multi21 is a result of normal human behaviour.

No, I'm also a more devious person than most so I would find other less obvious methods of getting even.

[Restomaniac]

I say ban pitting under vsc. Then again, it removes a tactical element from the race. On the other hand, remaining as it is, it is very unfair for racing, and the outcome decided by a vsc/sc is never good. On another note, it would be unfair to someone about to pit, but still.

So a driver gets a puncture in the incident and he has to go around and around the track dropping rubber and carbon fibre everywhere because he can’t enter the pits?

Not saying that should be the case. But it would not be hard to have a rule that would prevent cars without a puncture to pit under VSC/SC.
Pitting under VSC/SC only to gain a massive amount of time, even though all the tyres are in a fine condition, somehow is unfair. No matter which team it is. Today it was Mercedes who got extremely lucky and Leclerc was penalized with his third place - he should have won.

So a driver with no front wing can’t pit then? Or a driver with some bodywork hanging off?

A VSC is what it is. Your team gets the shaft today, they benefit tomorrow.

[Unf]

A VSC is what it is. Your team gets the shaft today, they benefit tomorrow.

And that is why tyre changing should be not allowed during VSC. It is gamble, not racing.

[dans79]

Re: the VSC thing. S'funny how it put the guy in the fastest car behind slower cars which should have resulted in exciting overtaking / racing. But it didn't. People then annoyed because the VSC "robbed" a driver of a win. And yet people want to have races effectively decided by just this type of fast-behind-slow situation.

2021 cars

and Max and Valtteri got past midfield cars, in fact Max starting behind them was a good part of the racing, being not in SPEED ORDER . Plus it's not that clear that Lewis was really slower than Charles, and Mercedes it looked like gave Valtteri a defensive mode that saved up his deployment for the main straight. And the dastardly Plan isn't that Ferraris can automatically get past Mercedes, after all

Don't be ridiculous. They got past midfield cars after being stuck behind them from several laps!

using the midfield cars is also a very dubious argument, because everybody knows the closer you get to the front of the grid the harder it is to pass.

[Restomaniac]

A VSC is what it is. Your team gets the shaft today, they benefit tomorrow.

And that is why tyre changing should be not allowed during VSC. It is gamble, not racing.

If there’s a slow puncture?

Also last time I checked teams chose to start on different tyre compounds without time machines telling them if their GAMBLE is right? Maybe we should enforce what tyre compounds they start on?
Teams sometimes run less fuel then they need gambling on a SC. Maybe we should enforce how much fuel they have to start with?

Everything in almost all sport in general is a gamble.

Football-(Which players do you sign, what formation do you play, etc.). Rugby-(Who plays in which positions, do we take the kick at goal or go for a try, etc. ). I could go on but it would be labouring the point.

Like I said VSC is what it is. F1 has many problems but VSC ISN’T one of them no matter how much people whine about it when it screws their team this time.

[Zarathustra]

Why not have a rule that states you can’t touch the car the first 7seconds- when stationary in the pit, during a VSC?

This way you can still pit during a VSC, but it will be a bit like a ‘stop & go’ penalty.

[izzy]

Don't be ridiculous. They got past midfield cars after being stuck behind them from several laps!

using the midfield cars is also a very dubious argument, because everybody knows the closer you get to the front of the grid the harder it is to pass.

they're supposed to take several laps not sail by instantly! and yes it's supposed to get harder progressively. It's for position, and once all the faster cars are past all the slower cars they're in SPEED ORDER that is the result and the race is over! You don't want it all to happen in one lap. i don't know, perhaps you need one of the boys to explain it

[RZS10]

Why did the F1 twitter account delete this?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Mercedes put themselves on a strategy that allowed them to wait it out and see how the race evolved. Some may see it as "unfair" that they got to benefit from the VSC, but the fact is they made the right choice on Saturday to maximise the chance of a SC/VSC if it happened during the race.

[Restomaniac]

Why not have a rule that states you can’t touch the car the first 7seconds- when stationary in the pit, during a VSC?

This way you can still pit during a VSC, but it will be a bit like a ‘stop & go’ penalty.

Why does the VSC suddenly need changing anyway? I don’t remember this chat when it’s screwed Mercedes?

[Unf]

A VSC is what it is. Your team gets the shaft today, they benefit tomorrow.

And that is why tyre changing should be not allowed during VSC. It is gamble, not racing.

If there’s a slow puncture?

Also last time I checked teams chose to start on different tyre compounds without time machines telling them if their GAMBLE is right? Maybe we should enforce what tyre compounds they start on?
Teams sometimes run less fuel then they need gambling on a SC. Maybe we should enforce how much fuel they have to start with?

Everything in almost all sport in general is a gamble.

Football-(Which players do you sign, what formation do you play, etc.). Rugby-(Who plays in which positions, do we take the kick at goal or go for a try, etc. ). I could go on but it would be labouring the point.

Like I said VSC is what it is. F1 has many problems but VSC ISN’T one of them no matter how much people whine about it when it screws their team this time.

Dude, choosing tyre compoud or fuel level is ok - it is a part of strategy. What I'm trying to say is that VSC, or even SC situation is like "if you are accidentally on the good position on track - you will win, if no - not". I don't like the fact that from time to time somebody can win only beacuse he was near pit wall when some 'grosjeanish' driver did a sh*t...

[Just_a_fan]

Why not have a rule that states you can’t touch the car the first 7seconds- when stationary in the pit, during a VSC?

This way you can still pit during a VSC, but it will be a bit like a ‘stop & go’ penalty.

Why 7 seconds?

And why punish someone for making a tactical decision? The teams plan around safety cars etc. because at some circuits they have a big effect and are almost a certainty.

The benefit / loss from SC pitting is entirely random and it favours you today, your opponent next time, someone else next time again.

Banning SC / VSC pitting because it might give someone a benefit makes as much sense as saying that if it rains, everyone should queue up and change their tyres at the same time. After all, when rain hits, the drivers get no say as to whether it happens just before they pass the pit entry or just after they've passed it.

This knee-jerk "I didn't like the result so change the rules" stuff is childish.

[Just_a_fan]

Why not have a rule that states you can’t touch the car the first 7seconds- when stationary in the pit, during a VSC?

This way you can still pit during a VSC, but it will be a bit like a ‘stop & go’ penalty.

Why does the VSC suddenly need changing anyway? I don’t remember this chat when it’s screwed Mercedes?

Kerching! Give that man a cigar!