Tyre sealant

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nordoff
nordoff
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 23:16

Tyre sealant

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I had a quick search and couldn't find owt.
Is there any difference between normal tyre sealant and the stuff on F1 wheels/tyres?

I had a trackday during summer using formula renault soft slicks on some normal steel wheels and the sealant started melting
Not sure what can be done about it so I'm asking here.

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

Re: Tyre sealant

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What is tyre sealant?
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

nordoff
nordoff
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 23:16

Re: Tyre sealant

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the stuff they use to seal the tyre to the rim...

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Tyre sealant

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With a wheel that isn't junk you shouldn't need any sealant. Can't imagine they'd use any in F1.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Tyre sealant

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You would think that there is no way to write seven or eight paragraphs about inflating a tyre: you push air into it and that's it, isn't it?

Actually, is not that easy to inflate a racing tyre, at least in karts. It's worse when you use hard compounds.

Rims are "slanted", like this:

Image

The tyre expands sideways when you inflate it. Because of this and the slant, the bead is larger than the rim when not inflated, so when you try to inflate it, there is a gap. If you use a regular or slightly "asthmatic" compressor, the air escapes through the gap. A foot pump won't do it, of course.

It's a catch-22 situation: the bead won't seat until the tyre inflates, but how do you inflate the tyre if the bead is not seated?

Do you see the gap? Try to inflate this with an electric pump!
Image

Normally, you have to remove the stem of the valve, for air to enter the tyre easily, while you seat the bead. Besides removing the stem, there are three ways to help the bead to seat, that I know:

1. Use a belt around the circumference to tighten the wheel (I'm dead serious).
2. Use a bead seal liquid (allow to dry before inflating), or, if the gap is small, use some other liquid. Some people around here uses liquid soap, which helps if the gap is not too large. If it is too large, you will get a lot of nice bubbles and no inflation. Of course, you have to lubricate the bead for it to seat easily, so, you'll need the soap anyway.
3. Use high pressure (be careful! protect yourself and I mean it) or, if you're desperate, a special mini-tank that provides you with more pressure (short bursts) called a "bead-seater".

Bead seater
Image

Again, use all precautions if you use this method, because bead seaters are designed for truck tyres and a kart tyre is really small, so it will fill really quickly once you "overcome the gap".

Normally you use a combination of these three "methods", plus a lot of swearing... ;)

I don't know if your problem is because your mechanics used option number 2. Of course, if this is the case, there is no problem with the bead sealing liquid heating and melting away when the tyre is already inflated. There is an easy way to know if this is the case: ask them! :)

If they used a bead seal liquid because of the tyre was junk (as J-Tom mentions), then, I think you should replace the rims (and the mechanics). You can kill yourself easily or worse, kill me (in the remote case that I'm racing against you ;)).

If you're using steel rims, you can repair them to make them round again, instead of using precarious sealing compounds. In spanish this repairment is called "to rectificate" (rectificar) the rim, I don't know the english term. Your tyre shop mechanic will use a special hammer (I think it's "softer" than the rim steel) and a tool designed to measure the roundness of the rims (a simple rotating table and a "finger" that moves across the rim to know if it's round).

BTW, some tyres have screws (normally three) around the rim. I have no idea why. Anyway, unscrew them before extracting the tyre and screw them before mounting it, but flush with the rim. Screw them completely once you've inserted the tyre.

It's a mistery to me why some kart rims have those screws (balancing?), but extract them before removing the tyre or you will ruin the bead
Image

NOTE: after writing the post, I realized that the pictures I got show the guy mounting the tyre on a concrete surface: bad idea. Try to do it on a softer surface, I think you risk ruining the rims by scratching them.
Ciro

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Tyre sealant

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Still, with a good wheel and appropriate air pressure there should be no need for bead sealer. Tire seals itself to the wheel.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Tyre sealant

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Well, I don't know Tom. I haven't had problems of the sort I describe when inflating with my car tyres, of course, but with kart tyres, yes, I swear.

I think that the smaller the tyre, the harder to seat the beads, maybe that's the reason why kart tyres have so much "tolerance" and they're so hard to inflate without some tricks.

I also seen people using thick, gooey bead sealers (RIMEX comes to my mind) and heavy duty bead seaters in heavy trucks and heavy construction equipment (I'm pretty good with a loader! ;)). Those beads are really hard to seat and they won't feel "tickles" from a compressor if there is any gap: you HAVE to use something to seal the gap before inflating, even if you use (as in most construction equipment) bead steel rings bolted on the outside of the tyre.

I wonder if the problem happens also with wide racing tyres. You do race, so, any ideas?
Ciro

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Tyre sealant

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Kart tires are a separate issue. I was referring more to "standard" sized wheels, 10 or 13" bead diameter or larger.

There is a set standard for passenger car tires and wheels. T&RA in the US, ETRTO in Europe (both are very similar). Passenger car wheels are generally built well, and to these standards, so you can mount tires with < 35 psi and there's no sealing issues.

Race wheels are another story. The tolerances on them are ALL over the place. Some manufacturers are good, some are absolute junk. Not only poorly toleranced at the bead but also compliant as hell and poorly designed. As a side note, I don't care how much unsprung weight savings you get, super lightweight flimsy wheels kill grip and handling. I'd take the weight penalty for something rigid.

Only time I've seen issues with tire mounting, either taking way too much pressure or not sealing right, are with junk wheels. Out of tolerance one way or another. With a good wheel there should be no issue. Wide tires shouldn't make any difference.. since you "shoe-horn" one bead on, then just slide the whole tire down on the wheel, then do the other bead. Really short and stiff sidewalls are a pain to mount but I don't see race tires with that issue.

F1, IRL, Nascar... I can't imagine ever using sealers.

(Huge tires for construction equipment and aircraft are a whole different story all together... some of them are so enormous and stiff that the wheels split in half and you "mount" the tire by just bolting the two halves together)
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

Re: Tyre sealant

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nordoff wrote:the stuff they use to seal the tyre to the rim...
Do you mean the grease that is used during fitting? If so this is used to mount the tyre and doesn't do anything to seal it. Your Renault team just needs to wash its wheels and tyres more often me thinks. :wink:
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

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Birel99
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006, 02:06
Location: Northern USA

Re: Tyre sealant

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Ah Ciro, those screws in some kart rims are called "bead locks" (in the US anyway. The purpose is to keep the bead in place under high load. They just prevent the bead from moving inwards on the rim and deflating.
I have never seen a tyre de-bead before but I guess they have before.