[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Chuckjr]

Has this been hashed our recently? If so point me to the post. If not...

Is it “just” money that keeps McLaren from developing their own power unit? Or is it totally unrealistic to do what Ferrari and Mercedes have accomplished?

I’m not digging at McLaren management at all or attempting to claim their current arrangement of using customer engines is inferior—tho some argue it is. Is it? It seems that would not be optimal, and optimal matters in F1.

I’m frustrated for their situation and want to see them improve long term. This seems the obvious and most return for investment course. Maybe with some of the cost savings coming in next year that opens a door? I dunno. Just seems they would be better off in 5 years if they had started building a foundry next year and little by little put an engine wing at the headquarters in place over a number of years. Spread it out over 5-8 years and keep the costs reasonable. Or does it not work that way? Am I crazy for suggesting this? Honestly asking these q’s.

[shotzski]

Has this been hashed our recently? If so point me to the post. If not...

Is it “just” money that keeps McLaren from developing their own power unit? Or is it totally unrealistic to do what Ferrari and Mercedes have accomplished?

I’m not digging at McLaren management at all or attempting to claim their current arrangement of using customer engines is inferior—tho some argue it is. Is it? It seems that would not be optimal, and optimal matters in F1.

I’m frustrated for their situation and want to see them improve long term. This seems the obvious and most return for investment course. Maybe with some of the cost savings coming in next year that opens a door? I dunno. Just seems they would be better off in 5 years if they had started building a foundry next year and little by little put an engine wing at the headquarters in place over a number of years. Spread it out over 5-8 years and keep the costs reasonable. Or does it not work that way? Am I crazy for suggesting this? Honestly asking these q’s.

Maybe it is more cost effective for them to purchase customer PU, which can be offset by sponsorship money. Whereas spend hundreds of millions and go through more pains to make their own. Mclaren automotive operations is still miniscule compared to both Ferrari and Mercedes to justify the cost.

[_cerber1]

It’s very expensive to develop a racing engine, I don’t think that McLaren will ever be able to do it on his own. All civil engines for their supercars are based on licensed Nissan blocks, finalized in conjunction with Ricardo. A racing engine is a completely different level of engineering.

[M840TR]

Has this been hashed our recently? If so point me to the post. If not...

Is it “just” money that keeps McLaren from developing their own power unit? Or is it totally unrealistic to do what Ferrari and Mercedes have accomplished?

I’m not digging at McLaren management at all or attempting to claim their current arrangement of using customer engines is inferior—tho some argue it is. Is it? It seems that would not be optimal, and optimal matters in F1.

I’m frustrated for their situation and want to see them improve long term. This seems the obvious and most return for investment course. Maybe with some of the cost savings coming in next year that opens a door? I dunno. Just seems they would be better off in 5 years if they had started building a foundry next year and little by little put an engine wing at the headquarters in place over a number of years. Spread it out over 5-8 years and keep the costs reasonable. Or does it not work that way? Am I crazy for suggesting this? Honestly asking these q’s.

For perspective, Honda has spent more than a billion over several years and still haven't quite caught up.

[Lucky]

Test details
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... st-2-2020/

[FittingMechanics]

Test details
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... st-2-2020/

From what I can understand, they used the fastest sector times from the test to compare performance. It's noticeable that they mention McLaren on C4 when Sainz did the same laptime with C3 as well.

Little point in making analysis of this type other than getting filler and clicks before the season.

[the EDGE]

Test details
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... st-2-2020/

From what I can understand, they used the fastest sector times from the test to compare performance. It's noticeable that they mention McLaren on C4 when Sainz did the same laptime with C3 as well.

Little point in making analysis of this type other than getting filler and clicks before the season.

Looks like McLaren may have achieved what they set out to do though... hide their pace and bamboozle their opposition

[diffuser]

Most of accellerations in S3 are not full throttle. Its gradual pedal depressions.

What do you think that means?

If you are not full on power, battery probably doesn't mean much so that can be ruled out. Rears overheating still could work, would explain why McLaren did ok in first two sectors against RP but lost out in the third one. I believe if they had better traction it would manifest throughout the lap instead of just third sector.

Generally in Spain S3, if you're slow, it cause of lack of mechanical grip. The cause of lack of MG? Could be overheated tires but I doubt that with the harder compounds.

[ivanlesk]

Has this been hashed our recently? If so point me to the post. If not...

Is it “just” money that keeps McLaren from developing their own power unit? Or is it totally unrealistic to do what Ferrari and Mercedes have accomplished?

I’m not digging at McLaren management at all or attempting to claim their current arrangement of using customer engines is inferior—tho some argue it is. Is it? It seems that would not be optimal, and optimal matters in F1.

I’m frustrated for their situation and want to see them improve long term. This seems the obvious and most return for investment course. Maybe with some of the cost savings coming in next year that opens a door? I dunno. Just seems they would be better off in 5 years if they had started building a foundry next year and little by little put an engine wing at the headquarters in place over a number of years. Spread it out over 5-8 years and keep the costs reasonable. Or does it not work that way? Am I crazy for suggesting this? Honestly asking these q’s.

For perspective, Honda has spent more than a billion over several years and still haven't quite caught up.

ATM - it would be pointless for McLaren or any other party (that currently is not in F1) to start developing this kind of engine from nothing. For them to catch up would take minimally 5 years. Given that everything is shifting towards electrical engines, it would be waste of money.

it woutld be better to enter Formula E and build their PU there.

[FittingMechanics]

Most of accellerations in S3 are not full throttle. Its gradual pedal depressions.

What do you think that means?

If you are not full on power, battery probably doesn't mean much so that can be ruled out. Rears overheating still could work, would explain why McLaren did ok in first two sectors against RP but lost out in the third one. I believe if they had better traction it would manifest throughout the lap instead of just third sector.

Generally in Spain S3, if you're slow, it cause of lack of mechanical grip. The cause of lack of MG? Could be overheated tires but I doubt that with the harder compounds.

It's a C3 lap. C3 is the soft for Spanish GP.

[RonDennis]

Has this been hashed our recently? If so point me to the post. If not...

Is it “just” money that keeps McLaren from developing their own power unit? Or is it totally unrealistic to do what Ferrari and Mercedes have accomplished?

I’m not digging at McLaren management at all or attempting to claim their current arrangement of using customer engines is inferior—tho some argue it is. Is it? It seems that would not be optimal, and optimal matters in F1.

I’m frustrated for their situation and want to see them improve long term. This seems the obvious and most return for investment course. Maybe with some of the cost savings coming in next year that opens a door? I dunno. Just seems they would be better off in 5 years if they had started building a foundry next year and little by little put an engine wing at the headquarters in place over a number of years. Spread it out over 5-8 years and keep the costs reasonable. Or does it not work that way? Am I crazy for suggesting this? Honestly asking these q’s.

It's unrealistic because of the money. Customer engines are fine these days, they get access to the same engine maps and updates. McLaren will never developed their own F1 engine with these current PU's. You must be absolutely crazy to do something like that. You're probably talking about more than a billion to create something competitive, not even ground breaking.

[diffuser]

What do you think that means?

If you are not full on power, battery probably doesn't mean much so that can be ruled out. Rears overheating still could work, would explain why McLaren did ok in first two sectors against RP but lost out in the third one. I believe if they had better traction it would manifest throughout the lap instead of just third sector.

Generally in Spain S3, if you're slow, it cause of lack of mechanical grip. The cause of lack of MG? Could be overheated tires but I doubt that with the harder compounds.

It's a C3 lap. C3 is the soft for Spanish GP.

The talk earlier was they were seeing the same drop off on the C2 and C1.
I personally don't look at testing numbers. Too many variations to compare.

[Emag]

People underestimate how big of an investment is required to build a competitive power unit in the current formula.
Especially for teams which have never manufactured an engine before.

There is literally no infrastructure in place at McLaren right now that would allow them to build their own engine. Assuming they spend the money to build that infrastructure which would probably take hundreds of millions in its own, they also have to find and hire the best people if they want to be serious about it. Finding the best people is also a big challenge, but let's also assume they manage to do that. Now they would have to start to manufacture an engine, while being 7 years behind any other manufacturer and I am just counting the hybrid era here. Considering that McLaren has never built an engine before the deficit is even bigger.

There is no way in hell they would build a competitive engine in their own for at least 5-6 years. Hell, it took Honda 5 years to build a half decent engine, and they are a fukin huge manufacturer. Perhaps McLaren would need even more time. And mind you that's 5-6 years of painful uncompetitiveness. 5-6 years of lingering in the back, barely making any money, so the cost rises up too.

Definitely not worth for McLaren to go through that. Especially considering the fact that the power unit manufacturers are starting to converge right now and they pretty much even in most areas.

[ripleysend]

People underestimate how big of an investment is required to build a competitive power unit in the current formula.
Especially for teams which have never manufactured an engine before.

There is literally no infrastructure in place at McLaren right now that would allow them to build their own engine. Assuming they spend the money to build that infrastructure which would probably take hundreds of millions in its own, they also have to find and hire the best people if they want to be serious about it. Finding the best people is also a big challenge, but let's also assume they manage to do that. Now they would have to start to manufacture an engine, while being 7 years behind any other manufacturer and I am just counting the hybrid era here. Considering that McLaren has never built an engine before the deficit is even bigger.

There is no way in hell they would build a competitive engine in their own for at least 5-6 years. Hell, it took Honda 5 years to build a half decent engine, and they are a fukin huge manufacturer. Perhaps McLaren would need even more time. And mind you that's 5-6 years of painful uncompetitiveness. 5-6 years of lingering in the back, barely making any money, so the cost rises up too.

Definitely not worth for McLaren to go through that. Especially considering the fact that the power unit manufacturers are starting to converge right now and they pretty much even in most areas.

This is spot on. I would say there's more chance of them going with a partnership with the likes of BMW which might involve the next cycle of F1 engines plus the next generation of the McLaren Automotive road car engine - derivatives and technologies could also then be used in BMWs own road cars too.

[M840TR]

People underestimate how big of an investment is required to build a competitive power unit in the current formula.
Especially for teams which have never manufactured an engine before.

There is literally no infrastructure in place at McLaren right now that would allow them to build their own engine. Assuming they spend the money to build that infrastructure which would probably take hundreds of millions in its own, they also have to find and hire the best people if they want to be serious about it. Finding the best people is also a big challenge, but let's also assume they manage to do that. Now they would have to start to manufacture an engine, while being 7 years behind any other manufacturer and I am just counting the hybrid era here. Considering that McLaren has never built an engine before the deficit is even bigger.

There is no way in hell they would build a competitive engine in their own for at least 5-6 years. Hell, it took Honda 5 years to build a half decent engine, and they are a fukin huge manufacturer. Perhaps McLaren would need even more time. And mind you that's 5-6 years of painful uncompetitiveness. 5-6 years of lingering in the back, barely making any money, so the cost rises up too.

Definitely not worth for McLaren to go through that. Especially considering the fact that the power unit manufacturers are starting to converge right now and they pretty much even in most areas.

This is spot on. I would say there's more chance of them going with a partnership with the likes of BMW which might involve the next cycle of F1 engines plus the next generation of the McLaren Automotive road car engine - derivatives and technologies could also then be used in BMWs own road cars too.

BMW is probably never coming back to F1. I honestly can't see any other engine manufacturer doing so in the near future. Mclaren themselves has tough decisions to make on its future given an increasing number of countries will ban all ICE sales soon like the UK in 2035.