2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

[Schuttelberg]

Don't remember the name of the bloke with Buxton.. I think Lawrence Bonetto or whoever, but I don't know what makes him a pundit? I don't think you need to be an ex F1 racer or engineer or part of some team to be called that but the pair of them are quite poor!

[Restomaniac]

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


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Its depends surely.

Can they show clear evidence that they started their plans before the end of the Abu Dhabi Race weekend even if they did acquire the plans directly from Mercedes. Surely then they are under 2019 rules? In fact when do the rules change, is it at the end of the year?

This could very easily end up being a fight based around dates and grey areas.
31/12/19> and it’s fine.
31/12/19< and it’s not.

If they bought a 'set' in 2019 to use as was legal, they owned them, but they were made and designed by Merc.
If that same 'set' were copied to use in 2020, and made by RP, they were then not made by a competitor and were copied from, not designed by another competitor. Legal ?

To quote Austin Powers ‘Oh no...I’ve gone cross-eyed’.

I think we are in that awful grey area that F1 teams often live in.
There is a fudge coming IMHO. Probably along the lines of ‘Its ok this year but you need your own in 2021’ or ‘You can use them until you get around to redesigning them’.
Before anyone says it I know that’s pointless but it’s how the FIA operate.

[SmallSoldier]

Oh okay, you're going the opposite way (more lenient for RP), arguing that if they were legal to purchase/receive info. about in '19, they should be legal in '20.

That's what I was curious about. I'd actually tend to agree with your interpretation. That is Budkowski's opinion (that it would be illegal to race legally obtained information/parts).

But like you said, there is no precedent.

The way I understand the rule the teams can’t use someone else’s design or buy the brake ducts in 2020 due to them been listed parts, therefore forced to design them themselves... Even if RP “legally”
bought them as parts in 2019 or copy the design of Mercedes 2019 last year, it would be against the rules to use them in 2020


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That's what I was thinking, too, based solely on Budkowski's argument in his interview earlier this week.

However, even the FIA is unclear on this. It's a bit of a gray area that needs clarifying:

I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.


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[godlameroso]

Pole low 14's

[Just_a_fan]

F1 aero parts are not copy protected.

A brake duct is no different that T-wing, no different than the high top side pod, or the floor slits.

They are protected because they are intellectual property.

The key is that only Mercedes can act to protect the design as it is theirs. If Mercedes choose not to take action to protect their IP then that's up to them.

Christian Horner disagrees with you. It is all about if documents were exchanged.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/christian ... t-copycat/

“I’ve always stood by the fact it is easier to sell a car than to copy it,” Horner told Sky Sports F1.

“You can see the closeness of those two cars but I’m sure it is probably within the rules because they is no copyright within Formula 1.

“They can photograph, they can scan them and can recreate that shape but it depends how they have had access to those components which is what Renault is complaining about.

“But it’s the fastest route to competitiveness as Racing Point has demonstrated.”

Actually, you'll find that he doesn't disagree with me at all.

[dans79]

I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.

I sat down again this afternoon , and looked at the sporting/technical regulations, and i didn't see anything that definitively says one way or the other what you can and can't do with items and knowledge that you previously obtained legally. Honestly, I think that's the reason why we see the comments coming from Tombazis. They have screwed up writing the rules again and don't know how to handle the issue.

[Hoffman900]

Mark Sutton shared this today:



28 years apart.

For the photog buffs, he shot Fuji Velvia 50 (pushed 1 stop to 100iso) then. Darren Heath and Clive Mason did too. Schlegelmilch and Paul Henry Cahier shot on Kodachrome. Darren Heath shot film until 2006. PHC made the switch in 2002.

As a friend said, you can "see the safety".

[Bill_Kar]

Rain in quali?

[Juzh]

Track is a total mess in first sector... I dont see it clearing up quickly

[El Scorchio]

I can’t find the article now, but I read that Haas struggles with their brakes in Austria were due to the fact that they had to “design” them and couldn’t just use the brake ducts they bought in 2019 from Ferrari due to the new rules.

I sat down again this afternoon , and looked at the sporting/technical regulations, and i didn't see anything that definitively says one way or the other what you can and can't do with items and knowledge that you previously obtained legally. Honestly, I think that's the reason why we see the comments coming from Tombazis. They have screwed up writing the rules again and don't know how to handle the issue.

I don’t know if I’d say they screwed it up, but it’s a difference in the way the rule on parts has been interpreted by different teams. RP think it means you can run something in 2020 you obtained in 2019 when it was ok to obtain it, Renault think it’s not.

IMO, RP have outsmarted a lot of other teams and they don’t like it. Renault and others should just nut up and concentrate on improving their own car.

[falonso81]

Why is Mercedes smoking so much?

[El Scorchio]

Why is Mercedes smoking so much?

Oh, because they are obviously cheating...

[Bill_Kar]

Why is it so slippery in S3? Wind?

[Mansell89]

Mark Sutton shared this today:



28 years apart.

For the photog buffs, he shot Fuji Velvia 50 (pushed 1 stop to 100iso) then. Darren Heath and Clive Mason did too. Schlegelmilch and Paul Henry Cahier shot on Kodachrome. Darren Heath shot film until 2006. PHC made the switch in 2002.

As a friend said, you can "see the safety".

What a fabulous picture that is. Wonderful

[f1316]

Well I’m fully braced for it to be a false dawn but that appears - in Leclerc’s hands at least (fastest in S3) - to be a step from Ferrari. If that’s just the fw and the floor I’d be surprised - so no confirmation (that I’ve seen anyway) of whether the gearbox casing and/or radiator layout have been changed.