Racing Point RP20

[SiLo]

Exactly!

But its not a RP is a W10.. that's the point..

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

He doesn't. It seems everyone has seen that the FIA have ruled against RP and have just assumed that means the entire car was given to them by Mercedes.

[siskue2005]

But its not a RP is a W10.. that's the point..

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

He doesn't. It seems everyone has seen that the FIA have ruled against RP and have just assumed that means the entire car was given to them by Mercedes.

Infact FIA has given thumps up to the entire car, expect for the rear break ducts

[PowerandtheGlory]

Exactly!

But its not a RP is a W10.. that's the point..

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

RP did copy, their TP said they did.. and the FiA will ban that..

[PowerandtheGlory]

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

He doesn't. It seems everyone has seen that the FIA have ruled against RP and have just assumed that means the entire car was given to them by Mercedes.

Infact FIA has given thumps up to the entire car, expect for the rear break ducts

Still the subject of appeals from teams, and we'll see what comes out of it..

yes the FiA have checked the car from a technical stand point, the car is fine, i said that about 20 posts ago. i got no problem with the car..

The brake ducts are legal im fine..

Its 'How' they went around doing this that's the debate..

How much help, support drawing, tunnel time and stuff was done within the permissable rules and regs..

[siskue2005]

But its not a RP is a W10.. that's the point..

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

RP did copy, their TP said they did.. and the FiA will ban that..

So you agree with what is said that RP just copied the entire car from photos; which is perfectly legal! As everyone copy each other, most of the stuff on Mercedes and Redbull is copied from others ( S-duct first brought by Ferrari in 2008). Glad we are on same page

And i dont think FIA can ever ban teams copying each other, it would be the end of F1 then

[Big Tea]

Infact FIAIt is all about timings. Everything was within the rules at some point.

[siskue2005]

He doesn't. It seems everyone has seen that the FIA have ruled against RP and have just assumed that means the entire car was given to them by Mercedes.

Infact FIA has given thumps up to the entire car, expect for the rear break ducts

Still the subject of appeals from teams, and we'll see what comes out of it..

The teams are protesting the ruling about rear brake ducts only

yes the FiA have checked the car from a technical stand point, the car is fine, i said that about 20 posts ago. i got no problem with the car..

The brake ducts are legal im fine..

Its 'How' they went around doing this that's the debate..

How much help, support drawing, tunnel time and stuff was done within the permissable rules and regs..

Now you have again gone into personal opinions, The FIA didnot find any issue how they got the brake ducts.
And there is no proof that Mercedes shared their CAD for the entire car!

[PowerandtheGlory]

Do you have any proof that RP didnt copy them and Mercedes send them CAD for their entire car? other than your personal opinion?

RP did copy, their TP said they did.. and the FiA will ban that..

So you agree with what is said that RP just copied the entire car from photos; which is perfectly legal! As everyone copy each other, most of the stuff on Mercedes and Redbull is copied from others ( S-duct first brought by Ferrari in 2008). Glad we are on same page

And i dont think FIA can ever ban teams copying each other, it would be the end of F1 then

yes i agree that RP probably copied the whole car - and had some form of help from Merc (yet to be proved) by getting around the rules and regs somehow.. and they have very good lawyers so at least they get paid..

Copying will always happen, yes and employees move from team to team and take ideas and concepts yes, that's fine.

But long term....

We don't want a field of copycat cars... do we? any of us?? really? just painted different??

THAT is what is causing discontent from some teams.. who still do things their own way, rightly or wrongly..

[siskue2005]

RP did copy, their TP said they did.. and the FiA will ban that..

So you agree with what is said that RP just copied the entire car from photos; which is perfectly legal! As everyone copy each other, most of the stuff on Mercedes and Redbull is copied from others ( S-duct first brought by Ferrari in 2008). Glad we are on same page

And i dont think FIA can ever ban teams copying each other, it would be the end of F1 then

yes i agree that RP probably copied the whole car - and had some form of help from Merc (yet to be proved) by getting around the rules and regs somehow.. and they have very good lawyers so at least they get paid..

Copying will always happen, yes and employees move from team to team and take ideas and concepts yes, that's fine.

But long term....

We don't want a field of copycat cars... do we? any of us?? really? just painted different??

THAT is what is causing discontent from some teams.. who still do things their own way, rightly or wrongly..

Yes, i want it, i have been watching f1 since the 1990s, i dont mind bringing back customer teams IF that allows a tighter and competitive field!
Better copy cars than no cars at all
Better copy cars than 5 seconds slow back markers

[PowerandtheGlory]

So you agree with what is said that RP just copied the entire car from photos; which is perfectly legal! As everyone copy each other, most of the stuff on Mercedes and Redbull is copied from others ( S-duct first brought by Ferrari in 2008). Glad we are on same page

And i dont think FIA can ever ban teams copying each other, it would be the end of F1 then

yes i agree that RP probably copied the whole car - and had some form of help from Merc (yet to be proved) by getting around the rules and regs somehow.. and they have very good lawyers so at least they get paid..

Copying will always happen, yes and employees move from team to team and take ideas and concepts yes, that's fine.

But long term....

We don't want a field of copycat cars... do we? any of us?? really? just painted different??

THAT is what is causing discontent from some teams.. who still do things their own way, rightly or wrongly..

Yes, i want it, i have been watching f1 since the 1990s, i dont mind bringing back customer teams IF that allows a tighter and competitive field!
Better copy cars than no cars at all
Better copy cars than 5 seconds slow back markers

Ahhh yes the Forti's the Yellow rolling roadblocks.. bless them

On the subject of knowing history... my Avatar name should really be a giveaway?? anyways..

I think a field of similarly identical cars is not what the Formula has been about for so long... albeit with exceptions..

yes nobody wants a car 5 seconds off the pace...

Some single make race series are um.... ok... for developing young drivers or separating the best drivers from the bunch..

I mean we all love Watching the Porsche Cup races... (aka- the time when you go to the toilet and get your hotdog... and then come back to watch the other stuff...)

But surely, you wouldn't want F1 to go down that path of have 3 chassis on offer, 3 engines and then teams just do a pick and mix of bits and then go racing.. that isnt F1 and innovation???

Why bother holding guys like Newey, Brawn, Head, Barnard.. etc... etc.. in high regard for so many years if people will just copy them and go racing..

It will simply be a case of who <insert name> did the best copying job of somebody else...

Lets keep the variety and less everyone copycatting everybody...?

Thanks for the debate though, good stuff.

[siskue2005]

Funny enough all these Newey, Brawn, Head, Barnard.. etc... etc.. are all copy cats themselves, Lets not go down that path
Things change in f1 and world ... if only this makes the sports sustainable, then i am all for it
No matter what rules comes, there will always be a giant team dominating F1, so nothing is gonna change there..all we can do is make the sport sustainable for all the lower teams.

[basti313]

I think you two are missing the point, that Merc gave brakeducts to RP for the development of the 2020 car. This is the core problem as this is against the rules. The only discussion in this is how the Merc brakeducts made it into the final race version or if they were really only used in the wind tunnel. I think the current interpretation is that RP used these models to create their own copy, which is not against technical rules...

[siskue2005]

They gave it in 2019 for development of 2019 car, as RP ran the Front brake ducts in 2019 races, only couldn't run rear brake ducts in 2019 due to design philosophy. As they have already purchased the brake ducts, they requested for spare parts of the same in 2020 January and Mercedes gave them legally.

[PowerandtheGlory]

Yes, i want it, i have been watching f1 since the 1990s, i dont mind bringing back customer teams IF that allows a tighter and competitive field!
Better copy cars than no cars at all
Better copy cars than 5 seconds slow back markers

Ahhh yes the Forti's the Yellow rolling roadblocks.. bless them

On the subject of knowing history... my Avatar name should really be a giveaway?? anyways..

I think a field of similarly identical cars is not what the Formula has been about for so long... albeit with exceptions..

yes nobody wants a car 5 seconds off the pace...

Some single make race series are um.... ok... for developing young drivers or separating the best drivers from the bunch..

I mean we all love Watching the Porsche Cup races... (aka- the time when you go to the toilet and get your hotdog... and then come back to watch the other stuff...)

But surely, you wouldn't want F1 to go down that path of have 3 chassis on offer, 3 engines and then teams just do a pick and mix of bits and then go racing.. that isnt F1 and innovation???

Why bother holding guys like Newey, Brawn, Head, Barnard.. etc... etc.. in high regard for so many years if people will just copy them and go racing..

It will simply be a case of who <insert name> did the best copying job of somebody else...

Lets keep the variety and less everyone copycatting everybody...?

Thanks for the debate though, good stuff.

Funny enough all these Newey, Brawn, Head, Barnard.. etc... etc.. are all copy cats themselves, Lets not go down that path
Things change in f1 and world ... if only this makes the sports sustainable, then i am all for it
No matter what rules comes, there will always be a giant team dominating F1, so nothing is gonna change there..all we can do is make the sport sustainable for all the lower teams.

I sort of knew you would say that about those names, and your probably not wrong. But they did establish design dynasties.. i think lots can be done for the health of the sport and 'some' parts sharing is ok, but not to the point where it becomes artificial..

Road testers of the current road going supra have all moaned about the fact the car is basically a BMW, with BMW logos everywhere.. most of the parts, engine, infotainment...

Now, i dont think you'll care driving it, but what will people think in 10 years time?? it was a (very good) parts bin BMW with some toyota badges...

......1988 mclaren won 15 out of 16 races... probably a tough year if you werent a mclaren fan!! and many might of said the dominance was boring, but as time goes by we look back at that year as a 'golden age' in the sport..

Amazing what time and perspective can do to things..?

So in 10 years what will we think of the 2020 RP..? i think it may go down as the last 'true' copycat car..

[PowerandtheGlory]

Funny enough all these Newey, Brawn, Head, Barnard.. etc... etc.. are all copy cats themselves, Lets not go down that path
Things change in f1 and world ... if only this makes the sports sustainable, then i am all for it
No matter what rules comes, there will always be a giant team dominating F1, so nothing is gonna change there..all we can do is make the sport sustainable for all the lower teams.

I think you two are missing the point, that Merc gave brakeducts to RP for the development of the 2020 car. This is the core problem as this is against the rules. The only discussion in this is how the Merc brakeducts made it into the final race version or if they were really only used in the wind tunnel. I think the current interpretation is that RP used these models to create their own copy, which is not against technical rules...

They gave it in 2019 for development of 2019 car, as RP ran the Front brake ducts in 2019 races, only couldn't run rear brake ducts in 2019 due to design philosophy. As they have already purchased the brake ducts, they requested for spare parts of the same in 2020 January and Mercedes gave them legally.

Yes and you cant undo the knowledge they gained, but you are effectively running the 2019 part, you couldn't fit in 2019? Yes...? and now BD are listed.... so you cant do that.. so you cant use a 2019 part... fair enough?

RP claimed they did enough to design it themselves... FiA didnt agree...