2020 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, August 14 - 16

[Moore77]

The compounds and conditions didn't work in Red Bull's favor. Max knew he wasn't going to catch Hamilton, so there was no reason to try to catch him. He just needed to do enough to stay ahead of Bottas. Next race is back to Silverstone2 compounds which should suit Max better.

Sorry, but which race were you watching? Lewis and Max both used the exact same tyres that was used in Silverstone2. C2 and C3. Mercedes didn't touch C1 here and Max didn't use C4 in Silverstone2.

That was the best thing to see! From September onwards as the weather starts cooling down I can see RBR dropping away even further though that will be crappy from a competitive perspective. Also very impressive is that Mercedes have practically had zero upgrades so far, at this rate they won't even have to take a new engine for another 2-3 races.

I am afraid, the quali mode ruling would further destroy the competitiveness and it would virtually guarantee 1-2 for Mercedes every race. With Hamilton having built such a healthy lead, it's just about how many poles and wins is he going to manage.

There are probably going be more PU failures as part of the compromise that teams have to make and run the engines harder than they otherwise would in races as they have to compensate for qualifying.

[Scorpaguy]

For the last 7 seasons, we can assume the following:

1. Does Ham deliver in the best car...yes, with no qualifications.
2. Does Bot deliver in the best car...mostly not, usually outclassed by Ham (and often lesser equipment).
3. Does Max over deliver...mostly yes, sometimes a lesser driver in a better car bests him-but just as often it is the other way 'round.
4. Was Ric a great driver...yep, sorely missed by RB now.
5. Big Red built a decent 2nd place car for 5 seasons...bet it all on a technicality and lost big.

...so, while we really need a Ham/Max fight on equal footing, F1 politics will never allow such. Ham is both great and fortunate, Max is great and unfortunate...he may be the best driver to never win a WDC. Big Red is irrelevant.

[LM10]

I've told it last time, got answers counterattacking me and I'm gonna tell it again: Bottas is a really weak racer.

That much is clear, yet Mercedes refuse to replace him with Russell in 2021, so what can fans do?

Write a strongly worded letter to Mercedes-AMG F1 Team noting the benefits of signing Russell or Alonso for that matter?

It's absurd that Alonso is excluded from the Mercedes-AMG team for trivial reasons (a $100m fine for McLaren-Mercedes over a decade ago, which was not Alonso's fault anyway).

Why should Mercedes replace him? Hamilton is miles away from his team mate, but Bottas is a clean and stable enough driver to get points which help the team win the title at the end. And if there is a wingman-situation there is no better wingman than Bottas as well. So why replace him with a hungry young driver like Russell now?
They renew contracts with Valtteri because of the reasons I've stated, not because they think he's one of the best drivers out there. That's for sure.

[Moore77]

For the last 7 seasons, we can assume the following:

1. Does Ham deliver in the best car...yes, with no qualifications.
2. Does Bot deliver in the best car...mostly not, usually outclassed by Ham (and often lesser equipment).
3. Does Max over deliver...mostly yes, sometimes a lesser driver in a better car bests him-but just as often it is the other way 'round.
4. Was Ric a great driver...yep, sorely missed by RB now.
5. Big Red built a decent 2nd place car for 5 seasons...bet it all on a technicality and lost big.

...so, while we really need a Ham/Max fight on equal footing, F1 politics will never allow such. Ham is both great and fortunate, Max is great and unfortunate...he may be the best driver to never win a WDC. Big Red is irrelevant.

The cries were similar in 2010 to 2013, isn't it? Alonso stuck in bad Ferraris and dragging results that the car didn't deserve and Hamilton stuck in unreliable, sometime really slow and often with messed up team tactics, being unable to consistently challenge the Red Bull of Vettel. It's difficult to endure things like when one driver, regardless of how great that driver is, running away with titles and races and the world seems to be a helpless place.

[epo]

I've told it last time, got answers counterattacking me and I'm gonna tell it again: Bottas is a really weak racer. He might be there or thereabouts in qualifying, but him being behind Max yet again and not even coming into a position to fight him despite being in a dominantly fast car, says it all.

He lacks racecraft, even Albon has more. He has single lap pace and that’s it. But an ideal second driver, he doesn’t moan and follows his boss.

[LM10]

I've told it last time, got answers counterattacking me and I'm gonna tell it again: Bottas is a really weak racer. He might be there or thereabouts in qualifying, but him being behind Max yet again and not even coming into a position to fight him despite being in a dominantly fast car, says it all.

He lacks racecraft, even Albon has more. He has single lap pace and that’s it. But an ideal second driver, he doesn’t moan and follows his boss.

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

[214270]

do you really think it's going to be as hot in spa in two weeks as it was in Barcelona today?

I never claimed anything about temperatures in SPA. I only talked about compounds. Go to AccuWeather if you want to know the temp for the next 2 weeks but take it with a grain of salt. No promises.

The heat, in conjunction with the tire compounds, and tire pressures are what cause Mercedes problem and Silverstone.

Unless you get all three of those conditions, and Mercedes learned nothing, then you won't see a duplicate of the second Silverstone race.

I think we can conclude after this race that the heat is an ancillary factor. This was my main gripe from last weeks thread; it’s the tyre pressure that caused the Merc woes at Silverstone maybe helped along by track temps.

Anyway, the word heat for Merc has traditionally meant engine overheating, causing them to have to open up their bodywork and race detuned. That’s what people should be worried about because that appears to have been totally solved.

[Unf]

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

Beware dude, I am constantly marked negative by saying that Bottas is 2nd driver. Beware.

[El Scorchio]

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

Beware dude, I am constantly marked negative by saying that Bottas is 2nd driver. Beware.

No, it’s because you keep saying that Mercedes conspires against Bottas in every race so he can’t finish ahead of Hamilton.

[Big Tea]

For the last 7 seasons, we can assume the following:

1. Does Ham deliver in the best car...yes, with no qualifications.
2. Does Bot deliver in the best car...mostly not, usually outclassed by Ham (and often lesser equipment).
3. Does Max over deliver...mostly yes, sometimes a lesser driver in a better car bests him-but just as often it is the other way 'round.
4. Was Ric a great driver...yep, sorely missed by RB now.
5. Big Red built a decent 2nd place car for 5 seasons...bet it all on a technicality and lost big.

...so, while we really need a Ham/Max fight on equal footing, F1 politics will never allow such. Ham is both great and fortunate, Max is great and unfortunate...he may be the best driver to never win a WDC. Big Red is irrelevant.

Quite possibly because he knew how the second driver would be used. I think it was the best move

[214270]

I've told it last time, got answers counterattacking me and I'm gonna tell it again: Bottas is a really weak racer.

That much is clear, yet Mercedes refuse to replace him with Russell in 2021, so what can fans do?

Write a strongly worded letter to Mercedes-AMG F1 Team noting the benefits of signing Russell or Alonso for that matter?

It's absurd that Alonso is excluded from the Mercedes-AMG team for trigvial reasons (a $100m fine for McLaren-Mercedes over a decade ago, which was not Alonso's fault anyway).

Serious question here. What exactly have you seen in RUSs short F1 career that makes you believe that a) he can match HAM? b) if I can be a bit more sensible here - that he’s a match for BOT?

On Saturday RUS has had the better of his teammate, but let’s be honest here there are some serious mitigating factors skewing those results. On Sunday (where BOT is most deficient), of the two times I can remember him being featured KUB got the better of him in Mexico through 4,5,6 complex and more recently he was on the radio to his team, apologising as he navigated his way out of the gravel having no success going round MAG in Austria. How do you know he’s good enough for the seat?

[Schuttelberg]

I've told it last time, got answers counterattacking me and I'm gonna tell it again: Bottas is a really weak racer. He might be there or thereabouts in qualifying, but him being behind Max yet again and not even coming into a position to fight him despite being in a dominantly fast car, says it all.

He lacks racecraft, even Albon has more. He has single lap pace and that’s it. But an ideal second driver, he doesn’t moan and follows his boss.

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

Michael Schumacher, British Grand Prix 1999.

[foxmulder_ms]

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

Beware dude, I am constantly marked negative by saying that Bottas is 2nd driver. Beware.

Bottas is *not* second driver the way you put it. You think Merc favors Ham. They do not. Bottas is the slower driver not the second. Bottas couldn't have even won a single race if he was in Redbull or Ferrari.

[AnthonyG]

It's absurd that Alonso is excluded from the Mercedes-AMG team for trivial reasons (a $100m fine for McLaren-Mercedes over a decade ago, which was not Alonso's fault anyway).

I don't get this, what is it about? Hamilton was also a Mclaren driver.

[Schuttelberg]

That's exactly the reason he still is a Mercedes driver. Perfect second driver. Good enough to get points, no crashes, no fighting with his team mate, no moaning, simply wonderful wingman. Hamilton WDC and Mercedes WCC every year. Not a single reason to replace him.

Beware dude, I am constantly marked negative by saying that Bottas is 2nd driver. Beware.

Bottas is *not* second driver the way you put it. You think Merc favors Ham. They do not. Bottas is the slower driver not the second. Bottas couldn't have even won a single race if he was in Redbull or Ferrari.

No one here is claiming any sort of favouritism or conspiracy. They are simply saying Bottas is not good enough and yet not atrocious under the given circumstances. And you are right in that Bottas wouldn't have won in a RBR or Ferrari this year. If that sentence relates to this decade, I'd say you're pretty much trolling.