Red Bull’s Max Verstappen topped the second session for the Belgian Grand Prix, but Mercedes seemingly held its pace back on the flying laps, showing dominant race pace during the long runs.
Most interesting things I take away for this race are the shifts in pecking order: Renault beats fair and square their costumer team and Ferrari has 'some work' to do, and that's not only on the engine... Or did they turn their engine down so can run it harder at Monza? We'll see.
Don't know if it is fair to say Renault beat Mclaren 'fair and square' as the leading Mclaren DNS due to a Renault problem.
Not that I think it was deliberate.
Remember what happened to Toro Rosso when they were powered by Renault? Conveniently given engines with used/spare parts.
I got to agree Bottas under performed yesterday and it was still enough to beat RedBull. Today Bottas in the early stage made Lewis work a bit but Mercedes will never allow him to seriously trouble Hamilton.
Mercedes needs to allow Bottas to beat Hamilton now?
Bottas needs to catch up first before Mercedes can "allow him to beat Hamilton' What tripe.
I got to agree Bottas under performed yesterday and it was still enough to beat RedBull. Today Bottas in the early stage made Lewis work a bit but Mercedes will never allow him to seriously trouble Hamilton.
Mercedes has never let the second driver attack the first driver no matter who it is until the team's position is guaranteed. If the second driver wants to attack the first driver, he has to do it in the same power modes etc as the lead driver. In other words he must simply out drive the leading driver.
For those complaining, here is Senna self narrating the 1985 race. The finish wasn't close (28 seconds), but does include some clown shoes from Ferrari and a chuckle from Senna about it:
Yes the dirty air is a huge problem but there was dirty air in 2005 yet SCH was able to shadow ALO for over half the race because the tires were durable and did not overheat from the slightest slide. RAI was able to push the entire race from p17 and win in Suzuka 2005 on 1 set of fantastic tires, that is what durable tires and a reversed grid would give every race. The pirelli tires are garbage and destroy any racing in F1. Bolt the 2005 tires on these 2020 cars and the racing would be much better.
Lining the cars up from fastest to slowest is almost a guarantee for boring races. Turn fp3 into a 45 minute long reverse wdc grid position sprint race, take the results of that and add them to qually as it stands now to make the grid for the grand prix. Give them tires that they can push hard for the entire stint or race and every weekend will be epic and the most deserving driver will probably win most weeks.
Its not about harder or softer tires,its about tires that dont overheat at the smallest slide and then lose most grip, the pirelli tires are inherently weak and can not withstand the heat.
I am not really a fan of Pirrelli but to fair you are ignoring how heavy these modern F1 cars are compared to your examples of times when cars could push for the whole stint. Pirelli has a very dificult job making tyres for the current power and torque and weight levels.
The cars need to be lighter, and maybe with refueling will see more sprinting.
Pirelli can make the tyres last, they literally get requested not to by the FIA. Most likely because fixing the aero problem is a lot harder than trying to generate racing with tyres that fall apart.
Yes the dirty air is a huge problem but there was dirty air in 2005 yet SCH was able to shadow ALO for over half the race because the tires were durable and did not overheat from the slightest slide. RAI was able to push the entire race from p17 and win in Suzuka 2005 on 1 set of fantastic tires, that is what durable tires and a reversed grid would give every race. The pirelli tires are garbage and destroy any racing in F1. Bolt the 2005 tires on these 2020 cars and the racing would be much better.
Lining the cars up from fastest to slowest is almost a guarantee for boring races. Turn fp3 into a 45 minute long reverse wdc grid position sprint race, take the results of that and add them to qually as it stands now to make the grid for the grand prix. Give them tires that they can push hard for the entire stint or race and every weekend will be epic and the most deserving driver will probably win most weeks.
Its not about harder or softer tires,its about tires that dont overheat at the smallest slide and then lose most grip, the pirelli tires are inherently weak and can not withstand the heat.
I am not really a fan of Pirrelli but to fair you are ignoring how heavy these modern F1 cars are compared to your examples of times when cars could push for the whole stint. Pirelli has a very dificult job making tyres for the current power and torque and weight levels.
The cars need to be lighter, and maybe with refueling will see more sprinting.
The weight is not the problem, it’s the energy that goes trough the tires, which is mostly downforce.
The immense power doesn’t help either. Those extra 200kg are peanuts.
The Hamilton interview I mentioned earlier, he was being candid yes but shouldn't be making those comments IMO.
He is putting a spin on things to protect his legacy. Bottas is nowhere near him. The delta between the Mercedes and the Red Bull is so big that even a perfect Verstappen can't prevent front row lockouts and 1-2 sweeps.
As far as Albon is concerned, he has more talent and racing vigour in his little finger than Bottas and he would have had a win and a podium by now if Hamilton didn't crash into him.
Albon and RedBull are also fighting the rest of the midfield and it's evident to even an idiot that the delta between RedBull and the midfield is smaller than the one between Mercedes and RedBull. A bad weekend for either Mercedes driver is P2 while Albon could easily finish 3rd or 8th if things really go south. Albon also hasn't been in F1 or a top team for umpteen years now. Verstappen is simply one of if not the best driver on the grid and he's getting the maximum out of a difficult car. Albon, will get there. At least, he will fight Verstappen a lot harder than Bottas vs Hamilton.
It is exactly this sort of interview that gets fans dawn the red mist. On Friday, it was going to be close with racing Point and Red Bull were quicker and on Sunday it's the second RedBull driver unable to participate in strategy fights. RedBull could have had P3-P6 today with the Alpha Tauri's as well and they were not touching the Mercedes. The only way Max had any hope of getting P2 was if he got those few hundredths in quali. Even then, I don't see him being able to hold Bottas behind considering the power in that Merc engine.
Mercedes got an easy 1-2 today with a wet set up. That says a lot. The fact that Verstappen is P2 in the classification is a testament to his talent and the heap of mediocrity that Bottas is.
Gross underestimation of Bottas. He seems faster than Rosberg both in qualifying and race pace. He may well faster than verstappen, you just do not have clue how competitive Bottas is. You make very bold claims about albon being better than Bottas.
We would need to see Bottas leave mercedes and race against a known quantity to gauge how good he is and how average hamilton was making him look.
The Hamilton interview I mentioned earlier, he was being candid yes but shouldn't be making those comments IMO.
He is putting a spin on things to protect his legacy. Bottas is nowhere near him. The delta between the Mercedes and the Red Bull is so big that even a perfect Verstappen can't prevent front row lockouts and 1-2 sweeps.
As far as Albon is concerned, he has more talent and racing vigour in his little finger than Bottas and he would have had a win and a podium by now if Hamilton didn't crash into him.
Albon and RedBull are also fighting the rest of the midfield and it's evident to even an idiot that the delta between RedBull and the midfield is smaller than the one between Mercedes and RedBull. A bad weekend for either Mercedes driver is P2 while Albon could easily finish 3rd or 8th if things really go south. Albon also hasn't been in F1 or a top team for umpteen years now. Verstappen is simply one of if not the best driver on the grid and he's getting the maximum out of a difficult car. Albon, will get there. At least, he will fight Verstappen a lot harder than Bottas vs Hamilton.
It is exactly this sort of interview that gets fans dawn the red mist. On Friday, it was going to be close with racing Point and Red Bull were quicker and on Sunday it's the second RedBull driver unable to participate in strategy fights. RedBull could have had P3-P6 today with the Alpha Tauri's as well and they were not touching the Mercedes. The only way Max had any hope of getting P2 was if he got those few hundredths in quali. Even then, I don't see him being able to hold Bottas behind considering the power in that Merc engine.
Mercedes got an easy 1-2 today with a wet set up. That says a lot. The fact that Verstappen is P2 in the classification is a testament to his talent and the heap of mediocrity that Bottas is.
Gross underestimation of Bottas. He seems faster than Rosberg both in qualifying and race pace. He may well faster than verstappen, you just do not have clue how competitive Bottas is. You make very bold claims about albon being better than Bottas.
We would need to see Bottas leave mercedes and race against a known quantity to gauge how good he is and how average hamilton was making him look.
Bottas faster than Rosberg? I don't think so.
Hamilton (2013-2016): 32 wins, 35 poles
Hamilton (2017-present): 36 wins, 32 poles
Rosberg (2013-2016): 22 wins, 29 poles
Bottas (2017-present): 8 wins, 13 poles
From 2013-2016, Hamilton had 59.2% of Mercedes wins and 54.7% of Mercedes poles.
From 2017-present, Hamilton has had 81.8% of Mercedes wins and 71.1% of Mercedes poles.
Rosberg was much closer to Hamilton than Bottas is.
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg
What does speed have to do with the points?
Rosberg has a race engineer assisting him with driver coaching and skulduggery with engine modes.
Speed is related to time. You can check who was closer in qualifying.
Rosberg is the better race driver in terms of grit and determination, but i don't think he was as close to Hamilton in race pace or even qualifying. more often than not once hamilton overtakes Rosberg, he will never see Lewis again on track.
Rosbergs wins came on pole, or through hamilton mechanical failures, or by sneakingly using engine modes that hamilton wasnt.
Mercedes has never let the second driver attack the first driver no matter who it is until the team's position is guaranteed.
In Silverstone 2020, 2019 and 2018 they allowed it and what was the difference here? Hamilton was doing the chasing. I remember in Germany 2018 when Bottas was behind and attacking, they explicitly called him off. In Austria all they told them was stay off the curbs.
Last edited by grubschumi13 on 31 Aug 2020, 02:15, edited 1 time in total.
Yes the dirty air is a huge problem but there was dirty air in 2005 yet SCH was able to shadow ALO for over half the race because the tires were durable and did not overheat from the slightest slide. RAI was able to push the entire race from p17 and win in Suzuka 2005 on 1 set of fantastic tires, that is what durable tires and a reversed grid would give every race. The pirelli tires are garbage and destroy any racing in F1. Bolt the 2005 tires on these 2020 cars and the racing would be much better.
Lining the cars up from fastest to slowest is almost a guarantee for boring races. Turn fp3 into a 45 minute long reverse wdc grid position sprint race, take the results of that and add them to qually as it stands now to make the grid for the grand prix. Give them tires that they can push hard for the entire stint or race and every weekend will be epic and the most deserving driver will probably win most weeks.
Its not about harder or softer tires,its about tires that dont overheat at the smallest slide and then lose most grip, the pirelli tires are inherently weak and can not withstand the heat.
I am not really a fan of Pirrelli but to fair you are ignoring how heavy these modern F1 cars are compared to your examples of times when cars could push for the whole stint. Pirelli has a very dificult job making tyres for the current power and torque and weight levels.
The cars need to be lighter, and maybe with refueling will see more sprinting.
The current cars are heavier, the 2005 tires had to last the entire race , were skinnier and had grooves, it all evens out. The pirelli tires are garbage. Refueling is terrible for f1, and the cars use so much less fuel now that it will make little difference in the weight of the car. The main reason the cars are heavy is because the tires are heavy. Look today how GIO's tire came off even though the front tires already have 2 tethers currently, compare that to kimi's suspension failure and how the single tether kept the tire/wheel connected in European gp 2005.
The biggest problem in F1 right now is by far the poor pirelli tires.
Mercedes needs to allow Bottas to beat Hamilton now?
They only need to give him a real fair chance rather than talk of no number 2 when it is a clear as the Schumacher and Barrichello dynamic. We have seen it time and time again. Tell me one occasion of all the times Mercedes have issued team orders e.g. instructed one driver to let the other pass, or an instruction to hold station and don't attack your team mate or an instruction to slow down so as not to pass their team mate that favored Bottas? There has not been even one. Even Hamilton himself knows this, in Baku 2017 implored the team to give Bottas the instruction to slow in Baku to help him out in his fight with Vettel.
Have you ever heard Bottas ask anything like that from the team? I don't think anyone has ever.
Pirelli can make the tyres last, they literally get requested not to by the FIA. Most likely because fixing the aero problem is a lot harder than trying to generate racing with tyres that fall apart.
Did the FIA ask for tires that pop in Silverstone? Nobody asked for these garbage tires, pirelli simply are incapable of doing better.
What tripe.
