Help for an F3 driver

Monstrobolaxa · Post 04 Jan 2005, 15:26

We're not saying it's incorrect....it's just that it isn't very technical.....it's more an explanation for someone that has never looked at a car setup. It's more or less a quick introduction to car setups but not very technical...

schumiGO · Post 04 Jan 2005, 20:48

EVERY Time when team bought Renault V6 car there must bee BIG book ("hand book or User's manual"_ it's not a joke) ask this book in your team and read it)) There must bee pictures of all bounds and pieces of FRV6....

Reca · Post 05 Jan 2005, 19:45

SchumiGO wrote: RECA, could you find another free book about motorsport technical questions and drivers stile

Even if I’m unable to find a free book with the answer to all the Frederic’s needs (assuming that
such book exists and that’s a huge assumption) that doesn’t imply that everything else is good.

Monstrobolaxa wrote: We're not saying it's incorrect....

In the particular case of the part I quoted actually I’m saying exactly that, it’s incorrect.
A softer front ARB reduces understeer because it reduces the weight transfer at the front (increasing it at the rear), hence exactly for the opposite of the reason given in that guide.

f3 · Post 07 Jan 2005, 16:12

Even if I’m unable to find a free book with the answer to all the Frederic’s needs (assuming that
such book exists and that’s a huge assumption) that doesn’t imply that

reca, how do u know all that kind of stuff, where did u learned it? from sites, from work, hobby?

Reca · Post 08 Jan 2005, 18:50

f3 wrote: reca, how do u know all that kind of stuff, where did u learned it? from sites, from work, hobby?

Difficult to answer since the sources are various. To be an engineer helps then, since I was quite young, I read everything I was able to put my hands on about the technical side of motorsport, that difficulty was for free... then chats with some engineers/crew members I met at the track or at Uni etc... It’s an hobby because my work isn’t related with motorsport at the moment.

Surely I don’t know everything (to be honest I know quite little) but I rely a lot on my background to distinguish things that can improve my knowledge from the rubbish. And that’s fundamental while looking for info, especially the kind of info you are looking for, and especially on the web.
Hence my suggestion, since you are at the start of your learning curve, to avoid to look for info on the articles you find on the web, to be VERY careful in choosing the source, same caution, if not bigger, regarding the forums, this one being no exception

.
The best source as SchumiGo said previously, are the engineers of your team : ask them, try to learn the most you can. That’s surely the best way because they probably have a long experience and they also know what you have to necessarily know and what on the contrary you can also ignore. After all, even if a driver has to be more prepared nowadays, his work is still to drive, not to design the car. Don’t be afraid to ask, even if at first he looks at you like you were an ignorant monkey (unfortunately sometimes it happens), any engineer, deep inside, loves to explain things... exploit that “characteristic”.
I know that I’m not really helping you in the way you desired but unfortunately what you ask for can’t be learned in few days and can’t be learned from a single source.

That said I wish you a career as long and successful as in your best dreams, and I hope, for a start, to see you racing here next October in the V6 race.

f3 · Post 09 Jan 2005, 21:16

thanx man, for your so honest answer. i felt it too that u cant learn something like that in 2 days, it is a long way and u have to talk as many as possible with engineers and people like u.

thanx man

schumiGO · Post 10 Jan 2005, 13:45

)) Don't worry...

But there is one moment....

1)Many engineers in such professonal team. always discuss setup wuth driver in such way.. ( are you ready to drive more clearly wih stiffer car, we can stiff your car, but you must drive clearly) But many young drivers can't understand the difference between this setup and give the answer thinking about nonrace category....

And many young drivers (maybe lose 1 second to teammate) see the stiff setup of teammate can say"Prepare my car stiffer like the other"

It's not good.... I wish you had engineer that work with yiu like this (at first races when you can't set up you car oneself) "i said -you do"
And when you started to REALY realized setup difference you may give you answer more good.

2) The next point that is veery VERY important is to do everything that team said to you in a right way.
If you engineer said to you that you must brake in this corner not so hard and downshift in ather rpm or some other... I'll be best for all that you do it!!! If you spend 10 laps and can't do this breaking... it'll be best for all(!!) if you stop for 20 min, and then try again..
3) You must alweys tell about car condition with engineer and explain every corner in many details... If car slide discribe how .. progressiv, like jumping... many things that you feel and think not important is very imp))

4) The 4 things maybe not so interesting but it can be bring to many problems..... Don't afraid to ask smth that you don't understand... If this question is stupid don't afraeid...ask..

It's not bad that in first test in V6 you'll be lose 3 sec.. It be bad when you started to think that you team lose it and finish work very hard..........

I wish you success!!!

f3 · Post 10 Jan 2005, 14:23

what u tell there is very truth, but about stupid questions: i asked something "oh u can see that too on telemetry" answer" you dont know that?" if i ask something i dont want to hear that i dont know it but an explanation. i am shure that i didnt ask enough but i had the feeling they didn't want to teach me eather something. and on that test we had a bad relationship. u know i was to focussed on it that he would be my father, i mean that he would play a father role. i learned it isnt like that and it is my work to drive and to not bother about emotions. in fact what i think is like that: for test i pay a lot, and in that short time i have to learn as much as possible, i paid so i can ask what i want. but u know everytime they did rude to me i left and that was a big mistake. i have to put myself above those people and try to learn as much as possible from them.

schumiGO · Post 10 Jan 2005, 18:18

Setuation will change when you become race driver... don't worry

for test it's very general things....

One thing for you will be very usefull!!! Try to collect all you telemetry and paper with session time(where you can see you and other lap time).... It's very usefull!!!!! And if you can collect you setup for all session do it immidiatley !!! In renault v6 it's very easy....
There is no problem with software.....

It you have some problem email mi you telemetry)) I'll do my best...

West · Post 11 Jan 2005, 11:37

schumiGO wrote:Setuation will change when you become race driver... don't worry

for test it's very general things....

One thing for you will be very usefull!!! Try to collect all you telemetry and paper with session time(where you can see you and other lap time).... It's very usefull!!!!! And if you can collect you setup for all session do it immidiatley !!! In renault v6 it's very easy....
There is no problem with software.....

It you have some problem email mi you telemetry)) I'll do my best...

You'd probably telemetry of his teammate to see where his gains or losses are though; maybe even a map track.

f3 · Post 12 Jan 2005, 10:49

In renault v6 it's very easy....

what is very easy, the softwear. and how can i collect telemetry if i dont have the program or doesn't that bother??

Guest · Post 12 Jan 2005, 10:49

f3 wrote:In renault v6 it's very easy....

what is very easy, the softwear. and how can i collect telemetry if i dont have the program or doesn't that bother??

West · Post 12 Jan 2005, 12:18

I think what he meant to say is that the Renault V6 already has a telemetry system built into it. After you do a couple of laps, a computer will be logging everything your car is doing, from throttle position, braking, lateral g's, etc, at every moment of the track.

When you're finished, you can talk to an engineer about the telemetry of your laps. At every exact moment of your lap, he can tell you what you're doing, or what your car is doing, and how you can improve in certain areas or change your style of driving in other areas. In other words, he is eyeing every single thing going on with you and your car.

Remember, there is data at every aspect of the course; you should talk to him where you think you are having the most trouble on the course and go over the telemetry with him in that area.

f3 · Post 12 Jan 2005, 12:26

yes, i know that the test in paul ricard was like that and i could compare with my teammate and see where i lost. i lost 1 second in one lap but only in to corners. i knew i could go faster but the confidence wasnt there yet (it is a big step from little f3 championship to the 400 horspowered nissan). but they said that i had to talk about technical stuff but that has no use i think if u dont go on the limit of the car.

West · Post 14 Jan 2005, 06:18

The thing about knowing technical things... is that it expands the limits of your car. As you said you are lacking confidence in some areas, you can explain that to your engineer; specifcally, where on track you think you aren't pushing yourself to the limit. Knowing how the car is reacting to each corner, and how you are controlling the car at that point, will help you with ur engineer discuss different setups.

The occasional spin out helps you sort out the car's limits, although i doubt anybody would want you to do that on a regular basis...

I think where the "mechanical" part comes is corner entry, mid-corner, and exit. Describe to the engineer, IN DETAIL, what the car is doing. I.E., too much wheelspin on the outer tire when you accelerate, a little wiggling when u put the throttle in, stuff like that. Describe the driving style to your engineer, and think about altering stiffness, geometry, or differential settings that will help your driving style. For example, if you like to throttle early, as what your engineer can do for that, then do some laps to see if the settings are suitable.

Your engineer is building your car to your standards, that's why it's important to know technical things, or at least your car's behavior.

I may sound like I'm repeating myself but that's all I can say about technical things... you have to go to Reca or Monstro (or anybody else for that matter) to discuss the technical workings of cars...