Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[Just_a_fan]

Funny how you say that, Hamilton was quite poor in the rain in 09. Didn't his teammate beat him at China?

This would have ended differently for a lot of other drivers, and it also shows some of the issues with the cars stability. That should be next to impossible in that turn!

I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?

Humans have off days. Your point?

No one is claiming Hamilton is omnipotent. He's had some bad days, heck, he even had a whole bad season (but still managed to take poles and win races), but on balance he's performed at a remarkably high consistent level. Across his F1 career, 61% podium finishes (no modern driver comes close) and 85% points finishes (better even than the great Fangio) show that. No doubt those figures will now be argued to show that he's lucky etc.

[Just_a_fan]

Fernando Alonso?

Alonso only beat one world champion in the same car and that was Button. That's just one.

You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?

Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?

[Wynters]

Alonso only beat one world champion in the same car and that was Button. That's just one.

You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?

Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?

Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious

[Wass85]

I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?

So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.

I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?

[Wass85]

You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?

Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?

Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious

Their titles don't count?

[Wynters]

Villeneuve...

[dans79]

I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?

So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.

I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?

It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/

McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.

[Wass85]

So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.

I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?

It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/

McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.

That just tells me the new parts were quicker?

[Just_a_fan]

I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?

So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.

I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt more even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?

They were chucking the kitchen sink at that car to try to claw back the downforce they'd lost and that others had done a better job of finding. Both McLaren and Renault rushed out a double diffuser following the FIA's ruling on the legality of these devices. Sadly, Brawn's lead wasn't so much down to the diffuser as the outwash front wing. Teams were messing around with the diffuser and getting mixed results because, as we now know, the floor wasn't getting the correct airflow due to front tyre wake. Brawn GP had figured that bit out from the off. Red Bull did a decent job too.

[Moore77]

You may be right about the car improving in the second half. But beating his team mate(s) consistently across the 13 years he has been driving in F1 paints a picture that indeed he has a talent that the others he has driven against lack. You may point to lack of wins and poles in the first half of 2009. I'll just point to him beating his team-mate across the board. The tally against Heiki that year 8-2 in races that they finished both. In fact, the difference was that large that Heiki wasn't retained beyond that year. What's more to say about 2009?

Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.

[dans79]

I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?

It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/

McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.

That just tells me the new parts were quicker?

If you can't tell from the video that the car was unstable by the fact that the rear stepped out in turn 7 in the dry, then you are just wasting everyone's time!

[Moore77]

You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?

Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?

Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious

Why?

[Wass85]

It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/

That just tells me the new parts were quicker?

If you can't tell from the video that the car was unstable by the fact that the rear stepped out in turn 7 in the dry, then you are just wasting everyone's time!

Cars sometimes do that in practice.

[Phil]

Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.

That says more about their respective team mates than it does about Lewis. Come on Moore, you're better than this.

Anyway, I'm out. This whole topic isn't going anywhere and I could really care less about convincing you or anyone else. The way I see it, the haters and antis will be far more bitter about Lewis breaking the records than the fans having to prove his talents.

As a Lewis fan, I could care less if he has 3, 6 or 9384 titles. He has done more in and outside of the sport to be remembered far beyond some of the "old greats". As some of them, he may only be appreciated once he hangs up his helmet.

For the topic; The longer Hamilton drives, the more likely he is to keep his records. If he stops soon, I could well imagine Verstappen or Leclerc being one of two who are still young enough to easily catch Lewis. 6+ titles isn't that much.

[Moore77]

Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.

That says more about their respective team mates than it does about Lewis. Come on Moore, you're better than this.

Anyway, I'm out. This whole topic isn't going anywhere and I could really care less about convincing you or anyone else. The way I see it, the haters and antis will be far more bitter about Lewis breaking the records than the fans having to prove his talents.

As a Lewis fan, I could care less if he has 3, 6 or 9384 titles. He has done more in and outside of the sport to be remembered far beyond some of the "old greats". As some of them, he may only be appreciated once he hangs up his helmet.

For the topic; The longer Hamilton drives, the more likely he is to keep his records. If he stops soon, I could well imagine Verstappen or Leclerc being one of two who are still young enough to easily catch Lewis. 6+ titles isn't that much.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I respect what you say.