2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

[Zynerji]

Feel sorry for Stroll, he was amazing in the opening stages really opening the gap and streaking ahead. Wonder how his race would have turned out had he not pitted for the new set of Inters.

Used inters might have been 200IQ in retrospect... Maybe they wouldn't have grained.

Seems that way. But bear in mind; Perez who is probably much better at keeping tires together than him had trouble on the last lap. So in a way, Stroll was in the same boat as Hamilton @China 2007; leaned on his first set of inters too much when they were new, and destroyed any chance of making them last (taking them to the end in this case).

I was thinking it was just too dry for the initial heat cycle on the fresh inters, so they overheated and grained. A used set from yesterday's rain session would already have been "cured" and may have not fallen apart, thus a win.

[mzso]

Hi!
Does anyone have on-boards from the last lap?
Lecler/Perez/Vettel of course. It seemed like from the outside Leclerc was really angry at his steering wheel after the finish.

[AMG.Tzan]

Hi!
Does anyone have on-boards from the last lap?
Lecler/Perez/Vettel of course. It seemed like from the outside Leclerc was really angry at his steering wheel after the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDImZ_S ... l=F1Racing

[zibby43]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Well that was a good race. I too prefer seeing the cars being driven at their absolute limits in perfect conditions but one or two of these chaotic races per season are really the icing on the cake.

I don't get the hate for Bottas either, man had a bad weekend. He's no Hamilton but he does what he is meant to - his position in the WDC reflects this. There is a very good reason why he has kept that coveted seat at Mercedes for so long.

Perez proved again he is the points scoring machine that RB desperately need.

I really feel for Stroll, I thought the decision to pit him for inters was correct (I think LEC was one of the first to go to inters and he was posting purples). At least RP had the foresight to split the strategies..

I still can't get over Q2 starting with the recovery truck on the track and Magnussen being mugged by people improving under yellows. Ever since Charlie's passing the stewarding standards have simply been unacceptable; this can't be allowed to continue.

[Ringleheim]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

Given that he is only one of two drivers in a Mercedes, he should be one of the top 2 qualifiers on the grid, at least most of the time.

[zibby43]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

Given that he is only one of two drivers in a Mercedes, he should be one of the top 2 qualifiers on the grid, at least most of the time.

I just meant in terms of raw skill, and not results. His qualifying form at Williams was the first indicator.

But yeah, I would agree with that. Still, you've got to produce the results. Something that the second driver at Red Bull has failed to do the past 2 years.

On a somewhat related note, Bottas' end plate not only broke off today, but it got stuck in his bodywork. Again.

[Racer X]

Used inters might have been 200IQ in retrospect... Maybe they wouldn't have grained.

Seems that way. But bear in mind; Perez who is probably much better at keeping tires together than him had trouble on the last lap. So in a way, Stroll was in the same boat as Hamilton @China 2007; leaned on his first set of inters too much when they were new, and destroyed any chance of making them last (taking them to the end in this case).

I was thinking it was just too dry for the initial heat cycle on the fresh inters, so they overheated and grained. A used set from yesterday's rain session would already have been "cured" and may have not fallen apart, thus a win.

I agree with everyone here. But specifically I think they pitted 3 laps too late and the second set should have been a used set. I really think he could have won the race. But also who knows because he might not have been able to bring* the tires up to temperature no mater what in the second part of the race everyone had a hard time with that.

It's not like anyone was able to make the new or old tires work good the more dry the track got.

Also slick tires were not going to do you any good because there was a couple wet spots on track that would have been difficult for slicks. Perhaps the final 10 laps on slicks might have been worth it but nobody tried so we will never know.

Only the Ferraris because of the way their car eats up tires had less temperature problems but hats off to the Top 4 it was a combination of the right driver's in the right cars following their instincts and using their skills to the maximum.

[Moore77]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

The other way to put around Bottas' qualifying competitiveness is to look at Lewis' reduced single lap pace. At 35, no driver would have the same single lap pace like when he was in his prime at 20s. Put Bottas and Max or Bottas and Leclerc in the same machine and they would destroy him, like Lewis would have in his prime. Lewis is still top notch, but not the guy in his 20s. Race craft is a completely different skill altogether and more maturity makes them better drivers. Lewis was certainly error prone in his hey days, but he is almost a complete racer with smart brain with all those years of experience. Age takes away a bit of pace, but gives a driver precious skills of smart racing.

[Just_a_fan]

Also slick tires were not going to do you any good because there was a couple wet spots on track that would have been difficult for slicks. Perhaps the final 10 laps on slicks might have been worth it but nobody tried so we will never know.

Slicks might have worked if the "soft" had been the C5. But this weekend, the softest tyre was the C3 and that was just too hard for those conditions on that newly resurfaced track.

[Schuttelberg]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

The other way to put around Bottas' qualifying competitiveness is to look at Lewis' reduced single lap pace. At 35, no driver would have the same single lap pace like when he was in his prime at 20s. Put Bottas and Max or Bottas and Leclerc in the same machine and they would destroy him, like Lewis would have in his prime. Lewis is still top notch, but not the guy in his 20s. Race craft is a completely different skill altogether and more maturity makes them better drivers. Lewis was certainly error prone in his hey days, but he is almost a complete racer with smart brain with all those years of experience. Age takes away a bit of pace, but gives a driver precious skills of smart racing.

And Lewis and Sebastian have said a plethora of times in underlying tones that they almost always set up for the race and not qualifying.

In Lewis' case this was magnified even more because Rosberg believed that he was extremely strong if he led after lap 1 while with Hamilton it was not that way. He always could come back in the race even if Saturday didn't go to his liking.

I think there is no doubt about Lewis' achievements. I am a huge Schumacher fan and Michael never had half as accomplished team mates as Lewis. Nico, Jenson, Fernando are all top drawer and world champions for a reason. But I see a strange desperation in some fans to make Bottas out as one of the top drivers. He is nowhere near any of these top dogs and comparisons to a Felipe who was never the same after his accident are really funny. Felipe himself was not exceptional like Lewis but Felipe pre accident could smoke the field in a season when he was on it. Bottas can have a day or two when the stars, planets and the sun align but anyone that gets to F1 can do that.

If I had to summarise it- The worst driver on the grid is driving the best car and perhaps the greatest F1 car of all time for one of the greatest brands in the world and for a team that is rewriting the history books in a scary manner.

What is worse is that there is always a reason he hasn't done well and it's never himself in his head. I don't think you can improve yourself without honesty and he is living in a fantasy world where only him and Mika Hakkinen believe he is the reincarnation of Senna.

I don't think anyone hit him in turn 1. Everyone spins. These conditions are like that. But to continuously blame others shows what a loser he is and good luck to him with that attitude because Lewis is going to go back and look for the times he's messed up this year and try to come back even stronger next year.

Bottas isn't the loser in all of this though. He is already a wealthy man. He will trundle around in some team after Mercedes fire him for 2022. The loser in this whole situation is only Mercedes.

[LM10]

Ham is the GOAT and Bottas is not that good. Not as bad as he was today (although once you loose track position today you were toast anyway) but nowhere near Hamilton. People here don’t need to big him up, it doesn’t detract from Hamilton’s shine to be honoust about Bottas. Hamilton is proving time and time again on his own merit what his worth is.

I think Bottas is very good. Anyone that can steal poles and occasional race wins from Hamilton, the greatest in the history of F1 in both of those metrics, while in the same machinery, is good.

Bottas was ahead of Massa in wins and points when head-to-head. Bottas out-qualified him 39-16.

Bottas has 2 problems: When he has a bad day, it’s usually on the day the points are handed out, and when he has a bad day, it’s usually very bad, which draws out all the instant reaction Bottas criticisms.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

If Mercedes let Bottas go, RBR would sign him in a heartbeat.

All that said, he’s nowhere near Hamilton on race day. But he’s one of the top 4 qualifiers on the grid.

The other way to put around Bottas' qualifying competitiveness is to look at Lewis' reduced single lap pace. At 35, no driver would have the same single lap pace like when he was in his prime at 20s. Put Bottas and Max or Bottas and Leclerc in the same machine and they would destroy him, like Lewis would have in his prime. Lewis is still top notch, but not the guy in his 20s. Race craft is a completely different skill altogether and more maturity makes them better drivers. Lewis was certainly error prone in his hey days, but he is almost a complete racer with smart brain with all those years of experience. Age takes away a bit of pace, but gives a driver precious skills of smart racing.

You've got a point there. Have not looked at it this way before. It's like with football players, for example. With higher age they lose a bit of their sharpness and might not be able to dribble past players as easily as in their prior times, but they mature, build up other skills and get more complete players overall.

Lewis is still amazingly fast in qualifying as well, but maybe not as sharp as in his younger years. On the other hand, he's become a more complete driver in the races bit by bit, to a point that it's so hard to beat him over a course of a full race distance. His ability to stay cool, weigh up decisions in situations such as wheel to wheel action and almost always go for the right one, be constantly fast looking after the tyres etc. is what makes him a complete package and a package frustrating and leading other drivers to errors.
Add to that the probably best team building the best cars and you get a symbiosis breaking all records.

[e30ernest]

If I had to summarise it- The worst driver on the grid is driving the best car and perhaps the greatest F1 car of all time for one of the greatest brands in the world and for a team that is rewriting the history books in a scary manner.

A bit harsh though? I do not think he is that bad. When he was at Williams, he certainly did well enough. I'd still put him around the middle of the current field at worst. But that's only because I think the field is pretty competitive during this era.

[i70q7m7ghw]

On a somewhat related note, Bottas' end plate not only broke off today, but it got stuck in his bodywork. Again.

Another thing is Bottas is unlucky. Whether it was the tire blowouts in Baku or Silverstone, Seb’s FW getting stuck in his car a few weeks ago, or losing his own end plate today, completely destroying his front end balance, those are pretty unlucky incidents.

Bottas broke his own front wing and wrecked his own steering by dive bombing Ocon during lap 1 after they initially spun, how is that bad luck? Other drivers had pretty good recovery drives from the back, look at Leclerc, he almost got 2nd.

I don't get it, I honestly don't, Bottas made all the mistakes today, there was no bad luck involved

[mzso]

Hi!
Does anyone have on-boards from the last lap?
Lecler/Perez/Vettel of course. It seemed like from the outside Leclerc was really angry at his steering wheel after the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDImZ_S ... l=F1Racing

Thanks. But it would have been nice to see the incident as well.