Vettel's 4 vs Hamilton's 6.

[ringo]

Nitpicking over something no other driver has the skills or car control to even do.
First it's dirty driving, now it's not dirty enough. Can Sir Lewis do anything right?

Anyhow i would say Vettel's 4 titles were somewhat similar to Hamilton's last 4. Dominance with not much competition from the team mate.
Hamilton has not been able to match the 13 wins per season record of Vettel however.

[raymondu999]

Not really much to say personally but I think this is a good watch and is very relevant to the topic

[PlatinumZealot]

So Sir Lewis' ongoing dynasty was voted the most dominant. Interesting. So he has surpassed the diminance of Schumacher as well.

[raymondu999]

I mean the Lewis-Mercedes axis does have more pace advantage, and has sustained it longer.

[Andres125sx]

Nitpicking over something no other driver has the skills or car control to even do.
First it's dirty driving, now it's not dirty enough. Can Sir Lewis do anything right?

Did both statements came from same person? Because if you pick opinions from different persons no, he will never do anything right.... or he will do everything perfect always, forever and ever, if you pick opinions from different people you can get both reasonings

[aMessageToCharlie]

Anyhow i would say Vettel's 4 titles were somewhat similar to Hamilton's last 4. Dominance with not much competition from the team mate.

Webber was ahead in the championship until the last race in 2010. How is that "not much competion from his team mate"??

[raymondu999]

Webber was also ahead a fair bit in 2012 iirc no?

[ringo]

Anyhow i would say Vettel's 4 titles were somewhat similar to Hamilton's last 4. Dominance with not much competition from the team mate.

Webber was ahead in the championship until the last race in 2010. How is that "not much competion from his team mate"??

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _graph.png

Okay, i stand corrected. But why did it feel like Webber was not dominating, but just the underdog turning over the tables a few times? I think Vettel's errors were to blame for that. Webber was also good at a few of the tracks, and he had better race craft over those years. But it just seemed like Vettel was the one more likely to lead the races.

[the EDGE]

Anyhow i would say Vettel's 4 titles were somewhat similar to Hamilton's last 4. Dominance with not much competition from the team mate.

Webber was ahead in the championship until the last race in 2010. How is that "not much competion from his team mate"??

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _graph.png

Okay, i stand corrected. But why did it feel like Webber was not dominating, but just the underdog turning over the tables a few times? I think Vettel's errors were to blame for that. Webber was also good at a few of the tracks, and he had better race craft over those years. But it just seemed like Vettel was the one more likely to lead the races.

There is no question Vettel was better at extracting more from the Exhaust blown diffuser RBs of that period but Mark certainly pushed him

The same can be said of Lewis in 2007 when he beat Alonso, 2010 & 2013 when he beat Jenson (although obviously he didn’t take the titles) and 2014/15 when he beat Rosberg and did win the title

1 difference is that Lewis’ team mates have always had equal treatment. RB have always backed a favourite driver. At the time it was Seb, which did help

[ringo]

Well the same cannot be said of Lewis vs Jenson. Different circumstances since the car was not the best and both were not directly competing. Lewis was focussed on beating the redbulls using brute force. It didn't work out well in 2011.
Jenson was more focused on beating Lewis using strategy.
Nico realized pretty soon, he could not outrace Lewis after lap 1. His chances were in qualifying and launching.

Webber i think was better than most think. He could race vettel hard. Imagine if he had equal treatment?

[the EDGE]

Well the same cannot be said of Lewis vs Jenson. Different circumstances since the car was not the best and both were not directly competing. Lewis was focussed on beating the redbulls using brute force. It didn't work out well in 2011.
Jenson was more focused on beating Lewis using strategy.
Nico realized pretty soon, he could not outrace Lewis after lap 1. His chances were in qualifying and launching.

Webber i think was better than most think. He could race vettel hard. Imagine if he had equal treatment?

Yes no doubt he was very talented. Webber, Vettel, Alonso & Lewis all pushed each other very hard back then. Certainly one of the golden ages of F1 driver talent

But as I said, I feel Mark just couldn’t get what Seb could out of the Exhaust blow diffuser RB cars. The required a very special driving style that Seb mastered

I believe keeping your foot on the gas somehow when it was not natural to do so as you sense the rear about to give way gave you much more downforce when cornering

Another day, another era I’m sure Mark would have been an equal to, if not better than

[grubschumi13]

Webber was ahead in the championship until the last race in 2010. How is that "not much competion from his team mate"??

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _graph.png

Okay, i stand corrected. But why did it feel like Webber was not dominating, but just the underdog turning over the tables a few times? I think Vettel's errors were to blame for that. Webber was also good at a few of the tracks, and he had better race craft over those years. But it just seemed like Vettel was the one more likely to lead the races.

There is no question Vettel was better at extracting more from the Exhaust blown diffuser RBs of that period but Mark certainly pushed him

The same can be said of Lewis in 2007 when he beat Alonso, 2010 & 2013 when he beat Jenson (although obviously he didn’t take the titles) and 2014/15 when he beat Rosberg and did win the title

1 difference is that Lewis’ team mates have always had equal treatment. RB have always backed a favourite driver. At the time it was Seb, which did help

Asking Bottas to let Lewis by in Russia 2018


Asking him in Singapore to slow down so as to not pass Lewis who decided to run longer:


Germany 2018: Ordering him to hold position when he had faster and fresher tyres


Even Hamilton knows Bottas is a no 2 and asked his team to slow Bottas to give Vettel dirty wake:


Even Toto called him a wingman:
https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/24 ... al-wingman

Is this really equal treatment? I.m not saying RBR did not favour a driver but don't lie that its not the case with LH

[raymondu999]

I don’t think anyone denies Bottas is a wingman no? It’s just the smart thing to do. I think Merc have been a bit more gracious about it than Ferrari were with Rubens though — they don’t seem to use those team orders unless in a tight fight/title fight

[grubschumi13]

I don’t think anyone denies Bottas is a wingman no? It’s just the smart thing to do. I think Merc have been a bit more gracious about it than Ferrari were with Rubens though — they don’t seem to use those team orders unless in a tight fight/title fight

Lot's of people deny it. It is a myth that Hamilton's team mates always have equal treatment and it is a drum they beat in every debate when numerous occasions can be shown this is not true.

[NathanOlder]

I don’t think anyone denies Bottas is a wingman no? It’s just the smart thing to do. I think Merc have been a bit more gracious about it than Ferrari were with Rubens though — they don’t seem to use those team orders unless in a tight fight/title fight

Lot's of people deny it. It is a myth that Hamilton's team mates always have equal treatment and it is a drum they beat in every debate when numerous occasions can be shown this is not true.

How is it a myth? Russia example was because Lewis was fighting for the championship against Seb, Bottas was well out of it. Bottas had equal opportunity to be in the championship fight and for one reason or another he fell out of it.

Singapore was Merc trying everything to get a chance to win. If Lewis came out in front of Albon, then he could use all his fresh rubber to attack cars ahead. Is that not simple to understand?

Germany they let Bottas attack for a bit, then decided to call it off to make sure there were no accidents. There was less than 10 laps to go, and Bottas was nearly 70 points behind Vettel in the standings where as Lewis was 8pts behind Seb. Thats just common sense. Bottas still had equal opportunities.

Lewis let Valterri back through in Hungary to keep it fair,
Hamilton pushed Leclerc hard in Monza 19 to the point it wrecked his tyres, then they let Bottas have a go with his better tyres. Both Merc drivers are given equal opportunity until the team needs to start prioritising. Not like Ferrari as an example who came out and stated who was number 1 in 2019 even before the season began.

If you have 2 cars running 1-2 and the 3rd place car is faster, its not making the car in 2nd place a number 2 just because you ask your 2nd place car to hold up the 3rd place car. Its the team, in a team sport trying to maximise their results.

Switching 1-2 round near the end of a race early in the season, or near the end of the season with both cars in the running for the championship is not having equal treatment.

Bottas gets equal treatment at Mercedes. When did Lewis get upgrades that Bottas didn't? Its even at the point at Merc where the drivers have to run the same tyre strategies to keep it eqaul.