2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

mzso wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 19:52
Jolle wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 18:59

this is the biggest reason biofuel isn't widely adopted as a alternative for gasoline and the future is EV coming from solar, wind and hydro power.
I think it's because it's not competitive economically...
Solar and wind is just wishful thinking. Won't have much relevance for the foreseeable future. Nuclear is opressed by green-nuts, instead of promoting it, as they should. So we'll probably be burning more coal, gas, and perhaps oil.

Any one live in Germany that can post here? Some news outlets tell us that in the bad period just passed the wind generators froze or became out of balance and could not run and the solar panels were covered by snow and ice so were not producing either so they had to take produced by nuclear from France and oil/gas from Poland for a week.

Is this correct?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

nzjrs wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 22:42
Stu wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:21
mzso wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 19:52


I think it's because it's not competitive economically...
Solar and wind is just wishful thinking. Won't have much relevance for the foreseeable future. Nuclear is opressed by green-nuts, instead of promoting it, as they should. So we'll probably be burning more coal, gas, and perhaps oil.
Nuclear is a multi-hundred year’kick-the-problem-down-the-road” problem. Really not the answer unless by some miracle we discover how to do nuclear fusion and create a new sun....
I'd take a couple of hundred years of problem free energy production!!! That literally would the best thing to happen to modern civilization since its inception.
In less time than that the 'waste' (waste fuel anyway) would be re used in newer reactors. It seems that only between 5 and 15 % of the material is used in todays units.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Stu wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:21
mzso wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 19:52
Jolle wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 18:59

this is the biggest reason biofuel isn't widely adopted as a alternative for gasoline and the future is EV coming from solar, wind and hydro power.
I think it's because it's not competitive economically...
Solar and wind is just wishful thinking. Won't have much relevance for the foreseeable future. Nuclear is opressed by green-nuts, instead of promoting it, as they should. So we'll probably be burning more coal, gas, and perhaps oil.
Nuclear is a multi-hundred year’kick-the-problem-down-the-road” problem. Really not the answer unless by some miracle we discover how to do nuclear fusion and create a new sun....
Lightbridge

gruntguru
gruntguru
566
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Big Tea wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 22:47
nzjrs wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 22:42
Stu wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:21


Nuclear is a multi-hundred year’kick-the-problem-down-the-road” problem. Really not the answer unless by some miracle we discover how to do nuclear fusion and create a new sun....
I'd take a couple of hundred years of problem free energy production!!! That literally would the best thing to happen to modern civilization since its inception.
In less time than that the 'waste' (waste fuel anyway) would be re used in newer reactors. It seems that only between 5 and 15 % of the material is used in todays units.
Fast breeders fix that but then you have a plutonium industry.
je suis charlie

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Nuclear power stations were a ‘convenient by-product’ of the race to MAD.
Without being able to justify them in the cause of National Security they would have been seen as having a very poor cost/benefit because of the long-term problems of irradiated waste.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

But this is getting a ‘bit’ off-topic now; back to potential power units for 2025/6.

What Ferrari were doing (that was not illegal, but is specifically outlawed by the rules now), will become more normal and allowed because there is most likely to be an increased electrical component to the power units, to go with a reduced capacity bio-fuel ICE.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

User avatar
FW17
169
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Another bad idea for 25/26 engines

3.5 l V10 high compression direct injection engines form OEM manufacturers

Refueling allowed

MGUH connected to exhaust driven turbine, unlimited sizing, made by non OEM manufacturers

Battery and CE by non OEM manufacturers

MGUK front axel mounted sourced from Formula E

mzso
mzso
65
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Stu wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:21

Nuclear is a multi-hundred year’kick-the-problem-down-the-road” problem. Really not the answer unless by some miracle we discover how to do nuclear fusion and create a new sun....
More like a million or two... There's a lot of uranium and thorium out there.

Hell, even the the stored nuclear "waste" would last for centuries.

Fusion is a waste of time.

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

mzso wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 19:59
Stu wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:21

Nuclear is a multi-hundred year’kick-the-problem-down-the-road” problem. Really not the answer unless by some miracle we discover how to do nuclear fusion and create a new sun....
More like a million or two... There's a lot of uranium and thorium out there.

Hell, even the the stored nuclear "waste" would last for centuries.

Fusion is a waste of time.
That was the point I was making!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Stu wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 08:43
Nuclear power stations were a ‘convenient by-product’ of the race to MAD.
Without being able to justify them in the cause of National Security they would have been seen as having a very poor cost/benefit because of the long-term problems of irradiated waste.
I would call this false.

Brown-Cake reactors were first, and could be supervised/operated in street clothes (non toxic).

It was not funded for full development due to a lack of weaponiziability, so we got stuck with Yellow-Cake and Tsar Bomba.
Last edited by Zynerji on 27 Feb 2021, 00:02, edited 1 time in total.

mzso
mzso
65
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

gruntguru wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 04:42
Fast breeders fix that but then you have a plutonium industry.
Not an issue. Everyone who wants plutonium makes it.
It's not like anyone couldn't further refine uranium fuel as well.

mzso
mzso
65
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Stu wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 08:47
What Ferrari were doing (that was not illegal, but is specifically outlawed by the rules now), will become more normal and allowed because there is most likely to be an increased electrical component to the power units, to go with a reduced capacity bio-fuel ICE.
The main thing of it was cheat-increasing fuel flow. I doubt that will become legal.

mzso
mzso
65
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Stu wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 20:50
That was the point I was making
No it wasn't. You said "not the answer" and "multi hundred".

User avatar
JordanMugen
85
Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 18:49
the atmosphere and much of the biosphere are made from N and O - that's NO waiting to happen
It is not a uniform planet-wide issue, it appears to be a localised issue over developed areas of the planet as you can see from this nitrogen dioxide plot, suggesting the nitrogen dioxide is related to human activities:

Image

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
643
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 00:29
Tommy Cookers wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 18:49
the atmosphere and much of the biosphere are made from N and O - that's NO waiting to happen
It is not a uniform planet-wide issue, it appears to be a localised issue over developed areas of the planet as you can see from this nitrogen dioxide plot, suggesting the nitrogen dioxide is related to human activities:
yes it's a localised issue (I wasn't saying otherwise) - local to the areas where there's a lot of people
people who acquire food and grow food and eat food etc
people who have recently greatly multiplied and somewhat replaced other life-forms

the current F1 engine is an inherently low-NOx and low-CO2 engine
(because it has heat dilution without CI the flame temperature is unusually low)
we could/should encourage this by having limits of NOx as we have fuel limits that are limits of CO2

btw amazing how .....
the F1 'gasoline-like-we-have-it' is 102-104 Octane .... and ..... Toluene is good