2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

[ferkan]

No, you're making my point for me!

If the car was as dominant as so many here claimed just a few weeks ago, they would have beaten Lewis regardless of the mistakes.

Helmet himself said Max's mistake cost him 0.2. so he would have been on pole by a little over a tenth without the mistake. That is hardly the sign of a dominant car.

He made a huge mistake in sector 3 as well, messing up on the exit of the final corner which cost him another .2 he should have had .4 on Hamilton with no mistakes. Still, he has to deliver when it counts or potential is meaningless. We'll see what happens in the race, I have a feeling it'll be hard for Hamilton to keep his position. If Perez undercuts him, he'll come out behind him when he pits, if he covers off Perez he loses track position to Verstappen. Also RBR has an excellent pit crew, Mercedes may lose some time on the pit stop. So Hamilton will have to be mm perfect as well as the team, all race long if he's going to hang on to the lead.

Mercedes simply downplayed their game as they used to do it with Ferrari. Probably lowered engine setups, to keep wear and tear under control and they will jet again cruise towards another championship, while RedBull with Honda went all in and they are allready suffering from malfunctions right at the start of the season... I dont doubt that RedBull guys will claim few wins in this season, but i am pretty sure Lewis and Mercedes will lock titles confortably quite a few races before the end of the season....And ofcourse we will be hearing how hard and difficult it was, how handicaped they were and etc...and i have to admit i am affected by boredomefest which we are watching for last 7 seasons, so i am overly harsh about it and sarcastic.

Merc beat Ferrari duo to engine and operational advantage in 2017 and because of Sebs form in 2018. Top driver wins with SF71H IMO.

[Restomaniac]

Serious question on Sebastian Vettel. Has he made a mistake staying on the grid? Do anyone here still think he has it? Or simply 2019-2020 has done so much damage for him, it’s irrecoverable.

Its a funny one that.
There are 4 WDC on the grid 2 are older so have lost their edge but not their skills. 1 is STILL on it yet the youngest WDC seems to be lost on every level.

[politburo]

I just hope they enforce track limits as they have written here in the Race Director's notes and consistently so. Bahrain was quite the travesty in terms of this. Hopefully from now on we see drivers punished and get penalties in the race as well not just Quali and FP.

https://i.ibb.co/GndzCYx/traklimits.png

[El Scorchio]

On a side note, it was Perez’ second qualifying session. If people think that’s the last time he’s going to out-qualify Max, they’d be mistaken.

It will be interesting to see how he handles a teammate that's a decent qualifier. The last time he had that he was more prone to frustration and error.

It's going to make the season that much more exciting to have 4+ cars vying for pole. Lewis is going to absolutely love that. Something about inter-team competition that brings out the best of him in quali.

On a side note, I have 2 questions: 1) Do you think Bottas can quickly make his way past most of the soft-shod cars ahead of him? 2) Merc won't react to an undercut by Perez because of his tire choice, so what can they do to minimize the impact of a RBR sandwich a bit later in the race?

I think Mercedes will completely ignore Perez. Even if it means he wins the race. They’ll just look at keeping Hamilton in front of Verstappen if they can. Focus on the long game. Perez isn’t going to be winning the title regardless.

[mafeotul]

Serious question on Sebastian Vettel. Has he made a mistake staying on the grid? Do anyone here still think he has it? Or simply 2019-2020 has done so much damage for him, it’s irrecoverable.

Its a funny one that.
There are 4 WDC on the grid 2 are older so have lost their edge but not their skills. 1 is STILL on it yet the youngest WDC seems to be lost on every level.

I think it started massively in 2019, but the Apollo V Scuderia engine really hid this aspect. I mean, in terms of actual mistakes if we are to list every single one of them, he probably has a worse track record than Max when he started and Max was a bloody boy. Combine that with Charles whom i still believe is better than Max ( i’m going to get killed for it ) and the picture really painted itself. My man got whopped left right and centre since Charles joined.

[politburo]

Serious question on Sebastian Vettel. Has he made a mistake staying on the grid? Do anyone here still think he has it? Or simply 2019-2020 has done so much damage for him, it’s irrecoverable.

I disagree that it's irrecoverable but I am quite reserved about his performances so far, although he did not make Q3 again. The car is looking quite good for a midfielder in the hand of Stroll. If by Rd. 5 in Spain he is not performing too well relative to Stroll then I think I will think he has really lost it.

You do realise this would be his third competitive season in consecutive years in which anyone will struggle to find people that are worse than him based on actual racing performance. I think it’s far gone, in terms of actual edge. And it’s heartbreaking to do so. I mean if Alonso can take a sabbatical and come back looking like he is having a good time.. how many excuses are we going to make for him.

I'm trying my best not to make excuses for Vettel but he has improved relative to his teammate so far. But it is certainly not looking good missing Q3 twice. If by Rd. 4 in Spain he doesn't show he is the Number 1 driver most expect him to be then it will truly be done for him, although Stroll is not slow. At that point I think it'd be best Vettel takes a sabbatical and for AMR to start looking elsewhere for a 2nd driver.

[El Scorchio]

Serious question on Sebastian Vettel. Has he made a mistake staying on the grid? Do anyone here still think he has it? Or simply 2019-2020 has done so much damage for him, it’s irrecoverable.

Its a funny one that.
There are 4 WDC on the grid 2 are older so have lost their edge but not their skills. 1 is STILL on it yet the youngest WDC seems to be lost on every level.

I think it started massively in 2019, but the Apollo V Scuderia engine really hid this aspect. I mean, in terms of actual mistakes if we are to list every single one of them, he probably has a worse track record than Max when he started and Max was a bloody boy. Combine that with Charles whom i still believe is better than Max ( i’m going to get killed for it ) and the picture really painted itself. My man got whopped left right and centre since Charles joined.

You’re fully entitled to your opinion, even if others disagree. I think Leclerc is a fabulous driver and he might well be. (Better or as good as) Some of his qualifying and race results last season were magnificent. Putting a car where it has no right to be is a trait of a top driver, which he shares with those very few others on the grid.

[atanatizante]

One interesting comparison: with almost the same track temp as in 2020, running with 5kg heavier cars, 1 sec/lap slower in average from the tyres and maybe another 1 sec. slower due to 2021 regs:

[atanatizante]

Latest Pirelli data says :



Although HAM said is nothing to chose between the M and H tyre and Mario Isola saying delta time between S and M tyre is bigger they`ve been predicted ...

[mafeotul]

Its a funny one that.
There are 4 WDC on the grid 2 are older so have lost their edge but not their skills. 1 is STILL on it yet the youngest WDC seems to be lost on every level.

I think it started massively in 2019, but the Apollo V Scuderia engine really hid this aspect. I mean, in terms of actual mistakes if we are to list every single one of them, he probably has a worse track record than Max when he started and Max was a bloody boy. Combine that with Charles whom i still believe is better than Max ( i’m going to get killed for it ) and the picture really painted itself. My man got whopped left right and centre since Charles joined.

You’re fully entitled to your opinion, even if others disagree. I think Leclerc is a fabulous driver and he might well be. (Better or as good as) Some of his qualifying and race results last season were magnificent. Putting a car where it has no right to be is a trait of a top driver, which he shares with those very few others on the grid.

Dunno, something about his 2019 season really impressed me on a deep level. He was immediately on pace, immediately on winning ways, no ifs no buts, in his first year, with a 4x WDC as a team-mate. And i’m a Merc fan. I am telling you mate, if that kid gets a car as good as Mercedes/RedBull he will categorically wipe the floor with the grid. That’s obviously taking into consideration that Max is as well as good as him, but who knows..

[mafeotul]

I disagree that it's irrecoverable but I am quite reserved about his performances so far, although he did not make Q3 again. The car is looking quite good for a midfielder in the hand of Stroll. If by Rd. 5 in Spain he is not performing too well relative to Stroll then I think I will think he has really lost it.

You do realise this would be his third competitive season in consecutive years in which anyone will struggle to find people that are worse than him based on actual racing performance. I think it’s far gone, in terms of actual edge. And it’s heartbreaking to do so. I mean if Alonso can take a sabbatical and come back looking like he is having a good time.. how many excuses are we going to make for him.

I'm trying my best not to make excuses for Vettel but he has improved relative to his teammate so far. But it is certainly not looking good missing Q3 twice. If by Rd. 4 in Spain he doesn't show he is the Number 1 driver most expect him to be then it will truly be done for him, although Stroll is not slow. At that point I think it'd be best Vettel takes a sabbatical and for AMR to start looking elsewhere for a 2nd driver.

Ok, but these cascading arguments have been made for a while now, a long while, we’ve even had a massive reg change in the meantime, he’s even changed teams. The excuses must stop somewhere. Even if you look at this from a business perspective, i cannot see any difference from AM having Sebastian or Magnussen in the car. The problem with the grid now, is that so many young drivers like Alex Albon, maybe a Schwarzman, etc. Cannot enter the grid because there is no place. An argument can be made about Alonso and Renault. The only difference is Alonso can still drive. He’s nearly as old as my dad. Still performs better than many.

[Big Tea]

I disagree that it's irrecoverable but I am quite reserved about his performances so far, although he did not make Q3 again. The car is looking quite good for a midfielder in the hand of Stroll. If by Rd. 5 in Spain he is not performing too well relative to Stroll then I think I will think he has really lost it.

You do realise this would be his third competitive season in consecutive years in which anyone will struggle to find people that are worse than him based on actual racing performance. I think it’s far gone, in terms of actual edge. And it’s heartbreaking to do so. I mean if Alonso can take a sabbatical and come back looking like he is having a good time.. how many excuses are we going to make for him.

I'm trying my best not to make excuses for Vettel but he has improved relative to his teammate so far. But it is certainly not looking good missing Q3 twice. If by Rd. 4 in Spain he doesn't show he is the Number 1 driver most expect him to be then it will truly be done for him, although Stroll is not slow. At that point I think it'd be best Vettel takes a sabbatical and for AMR to start looking elsewhere for a 2nd driver.

I also think bringing Seb in will turn out to be a bad move from a driver point of view, but he has been there and done that, and the car is looking poor this year any way, so no point changing him, use his knowledge to improve the team.
Possibly keep him on as an advisor in the way Miki was at Merc. His PR value to the team will go a long way towards covering his costs, and his 'champion-ness' could rub off on the new drivers. Merc may find it convenient to 'place' Russell there next year which would be a double bonus all round.

BTW (mafeotul) young drivers like Albon are getting their chance, but teams will always keep the best driver, irrespective of age. Drives are earned after the first year. (OK, or paid for )

[El Scorchio]

One interesting comparison: with almost the same track temp as in 2020, running with 5kg heavier cars, 1 sec/lap slower in average from the tyres and maybe another 1 sec. slower due to 2021 regs:

https://postimages.org/

It’s a shame there are so many teams where both drivers were not there last season. From that it looks like Williams have done a very good job developing their car- and Alfa.

I don’t remember the session last year but even though stroll has improved it looks more because he had a total mare last year.

[mafeotul]

You do realise this would be his third competitive season in consecutive years in which anyone will struggle to find people that are worse than him based on actual racing performance. I think it’s far gone, in terms of actual edge. And it’s heartbreaking to do so. I mean if Alonso can take a sabbatical and come back looking like he is having a good time.. how many excuses are we going to make for him.

I'm trying my best not to make excuses for Vettel but he has improved relative to his teammate so far. But it is certainly not looking good missing Q3 twice. If by Rd. 4 in Spain he doesn't show he is the Number 1 driver most expect him to be then it will truly be done for him, although Stroll is not slow. At that point I think it'd be best Vettel takes a sabbatical and for AMR to start looking elsewhere for a 2nd driver.

I also think bringing Seb in will turn out to be a bad move from a driver point of view, but he has been there and done that, and the car is looking poor this year any way, so no point changing him, use his knowledge to improve the team.
Possibly keep him on as an advisor in the way Miki was at Merc. His PR value to the team will go a long way towards covering his costs, and his 'champion-ness' could rub off on the new drivers. Merc may find it convenient to 'place' Russell there next year which would be a double bonus all round.

BTW (mafeotul) young drivers like Albon are getting their chance, but teams will always keep the best driver, irrespective of age. Drives are earned after the first year. (OK, or paid for )

So,

Being as honest and as brutal as you can, for the development of the grid, and given that a lot is about to change and fairly quickly in the sport, would it not be beneficial to apply the same mentality to the grid? We already have a good field there, but if Norris can do what he is doing after such short time, surely it must be time to revamp the generation a bit. Yeah, people will invest a bit more in names. I get that, but you don’t win anything with names. That’s a thing i love the most about F1, unlike other sports, names really don’t matter as much as what you can do.

[Restomaniac]

Its a funny one that.
There are 4 WDC on the grid 2 are older so have lost their edge but not their skills. 1 is STILL on it yet the youngest WDC seems to be lost on every level.

I think it started massively in 2019, but the Apollo V Scuderia engine really hid this aspect. I mean, in terms of actual mistakes if we are to list every single one of them, he probably has a worse track record than Max when he started and Max was a bloody boy. Combine that with Charles whom i still believe is better than Max ( i’m going to get killed for it ) and the picture really painted itself. My man got whopped left right and centre since Charles joined.

You’re fully entitled to your opinion, even if others disagree. I think Leclerc is a fabulous driver and he might well be. (Better or as good as) Some of his qualifying and race results last season were magnificent. Putting a car where it has no right to be is a trait of a top driver, which he shares with those very few others on the grid.

I agree with this but Vettel is a 4 time WDC and you don’t fluke into that. Yes I know he had the car but his team mate wasn’t a poor driver and it’s not like he didn’t have to come from behind in the WDC standings at times to win them.

His skill seems to have been lost, then when you consider crusty old Raikkonen, In F1-out of F1-Doing stuff elsewhere-broken jaw on the eve of the season Alonso seem to have kept their skills. That’s before you think that a guy who is 3 years older is STILL the guy. It’s all a bit odd that Vettel is the one of the 4 WDCs to be so lost.