2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

[zibby43]

At least Hamilton got the overtakes done, unlike Bottas!

Valtteri actually did half of the work for him. If there would be no crash with Russell, Lewis would have much more work to do and possibly would not see the second place, not even a podium.

And Verstappen is lucky, by his own admission, he didn’t spin away the race win on the restart.

That’s racing for you. You take advantage of your opportunities.

[ispano6]

Thank you for stating the obvious.

Strangely, I didn't see anyone complain about the red flags at Mugello, or the VSC when VET won in Australia 2018 thanks to it.

Some people can be dense, like not understanding that some flawed rules sometimes are exploited, you know, like track limits and free unlapping during red flags.

100% when the same ‘flawed rules’ benefit a driver of a Honda powered car you’ll suddenly have zero problem with any of it.

So you're admitting to the flawed rules or that you don't have a problem when a Mercedes driver or Ham benefits? You could just say Ham got lucky instead of saying those are the rules. But I won't put words into your mouth, I don't have that character flaw.

[DChemTech]

You’ve just completely contradicted yourself with that post.

I dont think i have; unfortunate you read it that way. I am just saying saying the objectivity- asymmetry you are implying does not exist, in my view.

What you appear to be saying is that we should all try to accept people as objective, right after saying people wouldn’t be objective had this unfolded the other way round.

I agree it would be nice if people were objective but realistically most aren’t, whether it’s by a little or a lot.

Whinging about red flags and race restart procedures in the race today is the exact opposite of objective. People have the absolute right to say they are annoyed that a driver they don’t want to do well or don’t support got extremely lucky with how the race unfolded and I think everyone would respect that, but to try and mask that by claiming the rules are stupid or unfair or were not followed properly is just a bit silly. All the procedures were followed correctly.

Ok, i can understand that interpretation, but thats not what i meant. What i meant is, that if things unfolded the other way around, max-fans would just as likely claim they are at least objective, implying the others are not, while hamilton fans would likely make fair, objective points.

But i disagree with you on the second part. I think most people fully accept the outcome as it is, and dont expect thw rules to be changed on the spot, but they are in their full right to have objections to these rules. And it is only natural such objections are raised when said rules are brought into play. I would say, listen to the objections and counter them on merit, rather than presuming its just a cover-up of an emotional response. I dont think anyone disagrees the procedures were followed correctly, but that doesnt mean they have to agree that these procedures are perfect.

[dans79]

Some people can be dense, like not understanding that some flawed rules sometimes are exploited, you know, like track limits and free unlapping during red flags.

100% when the same ‘flawed rules’ benefit a driver of a Honda powered car you’ll suddenly have zero problem with any of it.

So you're admitting to the flawed rules or that you don't have a problem when a Mercedes driver or Ham benefits? You could just say Ham got lucky instead of saying those are the rules. But I won't put words into your mouth, I don't have that character flaw.

No, he put them in quotes because that's what you're calling them. So he's literally saying he doesn't think you'll have a problem with it when it's a Honda driver benefitting from them.

[bauc]

Another great race, we are 2 out of 2 this year, let's keep this up!

[El Scorchio]

Some people can be dense, like not understanding that some flawed rules sometimes are exploited, you know, like track limits and free unlapping during red flags.

100% when the same ‘flawed rules’ benefit a driver of a Honda powered car you’ll suddenly have zero problem with any of it.

So you're admitting to the flawed rules or that you don't have a problem when a Mercedes driver or Ham benefits? You could just say Ham got lucky instead of saying those are the rules. But I won't put words into your mouth, I don't have that character flaw.

Flawed rules were your words, not mine. That’s why they were in inverted commas. No, I don’t think those rules are flawed and I’d have zero problem if any another driver benefitted from the same luck Hamilton had today.

However, we both know you’re only objecting to who the rules benefitted rather than what they are.

[El Scorchio]

I dont think i have; unfortunate you read it that way. I am just saying saying the objectivity- asymmetry you are implying does not exist, in my view.

What you appear to be saying is that we should all try to accept people as objective, right after saying people wouldn’t be objective had this unfolded the other way round.

I agree it would be nice if people were objective but realistically most aren’t, whether it’s by a little or a lot.

Whinging about red flags and race restart procedures in the race today is the exact opposite of objective. People have the absolute right to say they are annoyed that a driver they don’t want to do well or don’t support got extremely lucky with how the race unfolded and I think everyone would respect that, but to try and mask that by claiming the rules are stupid or unfair or were not followed properly is just a bit silly. All the procedures were followed correctly.

Ok, i can understand that interpretation, but thats not what i meant. What i meant is, that if things unfolded the other way around, max-fans would just as likely claim they are at least objective, implying the others are not, while hamilton fans would likely make fair, objective points.

But i disagree with you on the second part. I think most people fully accept the outcome as it is, and dont expect thw rules to be changed on the spot, but they are in their full right to have objections to these rules. And it is only natural such objections are raised when said rules are brought into play. I would say, listen to the objections and counter them on merit, rather than presuming its just a cover-up of an emotional response. I dont think anyone disagrees the procedures were followed correctly, but that doesnt mean they have to agree that these procedures are perfect.

But what objection could you have with the rules today? It’s just the procedure.

[pantherxxx]

Again, cannot fkn believe how much luck this guy gets in his life.... There is no end to it! No DNF since 2018.

He's the luckiest driver in the history of any sport, but certainly not the best. Because there's a guy called Max Verstappen who is bloody quick and skilled.

[proteus]

At least Hamilton got the overtakes done, unlike Bottas!

Valtteri actually did half of the work for him. If there would be no crash with Russell, Lewis would have much more work to do and possibly would not see the second place, not even a podium.

And Verstappen is lucky, by his own admission, he didn’t spin away the race win on the restart.

That’s racing for you. You take advantage of your opportunities.

One thing is being on the track and the other being off of it. If we would judge wheelspin, then everybody is lucky, since it happens to every driver during a race atleast once. It is great to see leaders making mistakes, because others get oportunitues for better results.

[Zynerji]

George needs to be careful, as lando could easily take his future Mercedes seat.

He's already in a faster car, and thus has more chances of showing what he's capable of!

Hmmm.. Ricc-Russ @ McLaren Mercedes might be a crazy superpower to ponder...

[214270]

Davidson nailed the analysis on the BOT/RUS incident. No jink to the right from BOT, it’s really the kink in the track making it look like BOT moved to the right. If anything as Davidson showed, BOT moved to the left.

If telmetry shows bottas just went straight or even veered slightly to the left, George is going to feel like a fool for his actions and his words.

Apparently Davidson was asking drivers to give their take on the crash at the skypad. Majority said it was RUSs fault.

[DChemTech]

But what objection could you have with the rules today? It’s just the procedure.

That something is the procedure doesnt mean it cannot be changed. It used to be the procedure that women could not vote, and years prior, that men couldnt either. We have changed that for the better. Now, thats a hyperbole of course, but f1 procedures can change just as well. They are not set in stone.

I think the question "should a driver that has been off the track for over a minute, and fell a lap behind, be able to end second due to being lucky with a naturalization?" Is a fair question, even of such occasions are rare. I actually dont have a strong preference for one of the other; there are arguments for and against the rules as they are now. But i think we should be able to discuss those issues, and hence discuss whether the procedures should change in that respect, without immediately being accussed of just being salty for seeing amother driver being advantaged.

[nimoraca]

It wasn't all luck for Hamilton today. He did get pushed out of track by Max in the second corner. I'm not saying it was unfair or against the rules but Hamilton certainly wasn't lucky there (with the damage he sustained). Then when lapping George, George left him only the wet part of the track approaching the corner, with Lewis being on slicks. That was unlucky as well. By the rules, the driver being lapped must ensure that he does not hold off a faster car, which he certainly did there. Finally, Max was lucky as hell with that "almost" spin at the race restart.
On a different note, the pace Lewis had today in dry(ing) conditions looked much better than what the Bulls had. The fact that he managed the fastest lap of the race even though he had to fight through the filed (using up the tires) speaks volumes. Red Bulls time might be ticking away.

[dans79]

But what objection could you have with the rules today? It’s just the procedure.

I think the question "should a driver that has been off the track for over a minute, and fell a lap behind, be able to end second due to being lucky with a naturalization?" Is a fair question, even of such occasions are rare. I actually dont have a strong preference for one of the other; there are arguments for and against the rules as they are now. But i think we should be able to discuss those issues, and hence discuss whether the procedures should change in that respect, without immediately being accussed of just being salty for seeing amother driver being advantaged.

The bold part is why I think people are questioning objectivity.

To be truly objective the question should be "should laped cars get to unlap themselves after a red flag period". Don't forget Lewis isn't the only driver who benefitted from the rule today.

[JordanMugen]

I think the question "should a driver that has been off the track for over a minute, and fell a lap behind, be able to end second due to being lucky with a naturalization?" Is a fair question

Normally the "lapped cars may overtake" rule only affects some Manor and Marussia cars (or similar), I wouldn't worry too much about it. The purpose of the rule is to get the traffic out of the way of the leaders, without penalising the backmarkers (by making them drop to the back of the safety car queue).

An unusually large number of cars were lapped, and thus given the lap back, in this particular GP.

The rule is only omitted when the safety car period is too short, which given it was an extended red flag was not the case.