2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

[Zynerji]

The truly sad thing I see every time something goes Lewis's way or something doesn't go Max's way is the thinly veiled racism and xenophobia that rears its ugly head in the forum.

Please don't drag this nonsense here...

Just because you think it's nonsense doesn't mean it doesn't happen regularly here!

I'm just very glad that we all speak English here, and that you have no special privilege to determine the meaning of other people's words nor intent.

F1 is the most diverse workforce in the world. Stop trying to muddy the "meaning behind" other people's gripes when their favorite does not win.

[Schuttelberg]

Very lucky day for Lewis. Really, as a Seb fan, I no longer know what to wish for. Every race is just painful. Testing, qualifying, races. It's just all the same!

Seems Ferrari did the right thing. They have all the telemetry.

For Aston Marting, they will also see his telemetry where he is lacking performance, but I think they wouldn't be bothered too much as long as lance gets to look good. Lance's ratings in the F1-metrics model will take big boost if he can keep in front of Seb this year.

Actually think Seb drove a fairly decent race. He started from the pit lane (not his fault), had a good first lap and passed both Alpines to his credit. He then had a stop go penalty as well as being put on slicks too early. Don't know what you're on about but I guess haters gonna hate. Keep at it. Suits you.

[101FlyingDutchman]

The unlapping of cars behind the safety car was brought in because lapped cars got in the way on restarts and ruined races.

Quite surprised this is unknown to Max fans...

What is it with this “fans” nonsense. I do know it’s the rule. But that doesn’t make it right in my eyes. Can’t have an adult discussion here without it resorting to “what driver you support” and even that is totally false. C ya!

Why haven't you raised this issue before today? Or is there anything different about today?

Not part of this forum? Would it have legitimised me bringing it up now if i had brought it up before? It’s just an observation of today’s proceedings. Could have been with any driver.

Nothing different about today. I just don’t understand how you can’t have an impartial view at a rule without it descending to “who do you support”. Anyway, I’m out. No need for this basal level of conversation

[DChemTech]

the problem is the hindsight. so far, no one was bothered about these rules that existed for so many years now and suddenly today, the rule need to be changed because one driver got lucky. i wonder why no one saw this coming and been proactive to have changed it. funny isn't it.
in 2019, lewis got lucky with a VSC, while he was leading after both ferrari's pitted as they were faster and ahead. the only option lewis had was to go longer and wait for VSC or SC. it happened and paul di rest was furious that, the VSC rules are not good and should be changed! after that, the VSC hasn't been an issue so far. but i bet, next time lewis gets lucky, that discussion will come back to life.
it appears as if, every occasion that lewis gets lucky, the rules around that should be changed. no one knows how he is going to be lucky next time, but i am sure people will show outrage over those rules that come in picture through which he would get lucky. we are so intelligent. last time in bahrain, it was about track limits and the run off tarmac area.
i think there has to be a committee formed to figure every possible way that lewis might get lucky next time and change rules immediately to prevent it. i am sure AWS AI and ML can help.

I think we shouldn't expect that rare consequences of rules or specific decisions are discussed with foresight. Such discussions always happen with hindsight, because they are rare and 'unexpected'. And yes, such discussions tend to come up more easily when it considers championship contenders (or otherwise 'big names'), for the simple sake that there is more at stake. Taking the aforementioned example of Gasly's win in Monza, I can both be entertained by that win and also acknowledge that, in all fairness, it was due to a quirk of the rules and he did not 'deserve' it on merit alone. But yeah, in the end Gasly's result was not going to potentially influence the championship, so I can very well understand that there was less of/no discussion around the point then, and there is now. That is not so much a matter of objectivity, but more a matter of stakes - if there's little at stake, one could objectively question the fairness, but still waive the issue because it's not influential.

Similarly, I do not think that max-fans questioning the rules now is a matter of being (non)objective, it's again a matter of stakes. The question of fairness is just as valid as in the case of Gasly, but because there is more at stake, people are more invested in it. That doesn't mean they are not objective about it. As I mentioned before, it's a fair question to race whether a driver should have such an advantage from a neutralization as we saw today, and because of who happened to be taking the advantage today, the stakes happen to be high (like they would have been were Max the beneficiary).

So, yeah, I am not surprised the question comes up now, even if due to hindsight, but it's still a good question if we take a step away from the imminent beneficiaries and pose it instead as "should neutralizations have such a large potential impact on the championship/outcome of a race", or something likewise. Or, can rules be cast better such that they have lesser potential influence there, even though that raises other problems with 'the regular' lapped drivers, in many more cases? And of course the same questions can arise regarding the impact of VSCs, regular SCs, and so on. As said before, I personally do not care too much in this case. The situation we saw today was rare, and in most races, allowing lapped drivers to unlap will have little effect on the outcome, but has clear benefits for clarity and safety. But I can very well imagine people think otherwise, and have arguments as to why a situation like today should not occur. Fair play to them, even if the issue comes up in hindsight - that doesn't make them salty, or non-objective. It's a fair point to discuss, still.

[Zynerji]

I think people are also starting to look at Stroll as a real driver now...

[101FlyingDutchman]

The unlapping of cars behind the safety car was brought in because lapped cars got in the way on restarts and ruined races.

Quite surprised this is unknown to Max fans...

What is it with this “fans” nonsense. I do know it’s the rule. But that doesn’t make it right in my eyes. Can’t have an adult discussion here without it resorting to “what driver you support” and even that is totally false. C ya!

your position is similar to that of otmar's. he also thinks the 2021 rules are not right.

He’s within his right to have the conversation. If you were a team principal and had responsibilities, plus an entire team and workforce behind you, you’d also fight tooth and nail for your organisation. Nothing wrong with it.

Do I think he has a point? I could write more on it as it’s an interesting one but warrants a different thread

[El Scorchio]

Very lucky day for Lewis. Really, as a Seb fan, I no longer know what to wish for. Every race is just painful. Testing, qualifying, races. It's just all the same!

Seems Ferrari did the right thing. They have all the telemetry.

For Aston Marting, they will also see his telemetry where he is lacking performance, but I think they wouldn't be bothered too much as long as lance gets to look good. Lance's ratings in the F1-metrics model will take big boost if he can keep in front of Seb this year.

Actually think Seb drove a fairly decent race. He started from the pit lane (not his fault), had a good first lap and passed both Alpines to his credit. He then had a stop go penalty as well as being put on slicks too early. Don't know what you're on about but I guess haters gonna hate. Keep at it. Suits you.

I feel really sorry for Vettel these days. If he's not having bad luck, then he's having no luck at all.
Was it my imagination, or did they slap him with that penalty moments after he'd just pitted, despite it being for something which happened a good while earlier and they could have announced before ? The timing of it feels incredibly spiteful. Punishment to the team for their complaining about the rule changes?

[El Scorchio]

What is it with this “fans” nonsense. I do know it’s the rule. But that doesn’t make it right in my eyes. Can’t have an adult discussion here without it resorting to “what driver you support” and even that is totally false. C ya!

your position is similar to that of otmar's. he also thinks the 2021 rules are not right.

He’s within his right to have the conversation. If you were a team principal and had responsibilities, plus an entire team and workforce behind you, you’d also fight tooth and nail for your organisation. Nothing wrong with it.

Do I think he has a point? I could write more on it as it’s an interesting one but warrants a different thread

There is one, so fill your boots!

[zeph]

Imperious start from Verstappen today, he drove like a champ. Disappointed with Checo, I expected more.

To me, it looked like Russell was mostly responsible for the crash with Bottas.

[zeph]

I feel really sorry for Vettel these days. If he's not having bad luck, then he's having no luck at all.

Then again, from 2010 to 2014 he had ALL the luck in the world, so maybe this is just the universe leveling out his karma.

[Schuttelberg]

Boy! Toto Wolff thinks he's the be all and end all in F1!

Great managers would say what he has in private to get his point across but honestly, if I were George I would seriously consider other options in F1. It's very clear that he is a serious talent and Mercedes are absolutely all eggs in the Hamilton basket. I've said it for numerous years that it is Hamilton that is making Wolff look good. Does he even realise that George could be his best bet at the championships in a couple of years? Hell! He could be the best bet if Lewis is done after this year.

I'm all for hard task masters but George has been very loyal and patient for three years when it is very evident that he deserves to be in the second Mercedes seat. Whoever the crash was down to, did the Williams have any business to be in a position to be passing a Mercedes there? George is no less accomplished than Lewis was in 2007 and Lewis straight away got into a McLaren. George has had his internship and a lot of teams would gladly lap him up if Mercedes decide to part ways with him.

Pretty low blow from a man who's done just that in his time in F1. I really hope a time comes when he gets it back in spades.

[dans79]

I'm all for hard task masters but George has been very loyal and patient for three years when it is very evident that he deserves to be in the second Mercedes seat.

Other than a good qualifying result on the easiest track layout seen in decades he hasn't demonstrated he deserves the seat more than other drivers. All he's done is outqualify teammates that shouldn't even be in f1 to start with. Not to mentions he's bottled several opportunities all on his own.

As I mentioned earlier he could easily loose "his future seat" to someone like Lando!

[matt_b]

Imperious start from Verstappen today, he drove like a champ. Disappointed with Checo, I expected more.

To me, it looked like Russell was mostly responsible for the crash with Bottas.

Max made a silly mistake behind a SC so needs to cut that out for the next race. Lando drove like a champ today with 0 mistakes glad he got Driver of the Day, fully deserved

[dans79]

Nationalism != racism.

No, really??????

racism and xenophobia

look up the meaning of the other word I used .........

[El Scorchio]

Conspiracy of the day: Russell and Bottas collided to force a restart and get Hamilton closer to the front

The sad thing is that some people will actually believe that.

'Lads. Quick! Risk your lives so Hamilton can get more points!'

Well, can't blame folks for believing it if they know about the 2008 Renault/Piquet shenanigans.

That was somewhat different to this. One driver compared to two drivers, with other cars at high speed behind) And you saw the genuine anger from both drivers afterward. Only a complete brainless idiot could even begin to think it was done on purpose.