2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

[NathanOlder]

So, you can have an off, wreck your front wing, sit for half a minute, yet get back on track, pit, replace your front nose/wing and still finish 2nd. Hamilton's car isn't that fast. The rules are broken. This was a mess of a race. It's nice to see a Honda victory.

Those rules are made to keep the race exciting, but also keep things safe, so no they are not broken.

Two rules at play here. The first is the blue flags rule, which helped Max passed backmarkers when HAM was cutting into him like hunting knife. But also hurt HAM because he had to navigate off line - his mistake in not going slower - onto a damp patch which lead to his spin.

The second rule at play are unlapping rules. I remember this rules came as a result of Singapore and other races where it i hard to pass without causeing huge pile ups. And also it allows backmarkers to come back into play for points. So that one is a safety and entertainment.

Why are you mad all of sudden? These rules have been around for nearly ten years now?

It seems a lot of people are mad all of a sudden.

Not saying its the case on this forum, but elsewhere most of these people who are mad weren't watching F1 10 years ago.

[SiLo]

It's just salty fans being salty. Has Lewis been lucky? Yes. Did he also drive really well? Yes. Has he had more luck than others? Maybe, but hes been driving at the front for longer.

I agree with the sentiments that the Merc is better on the tyres. The inters were in good shape a the end of the stint and even after overtaking all those cars on the mediums Lewis still had excellent pace. We go to Portimao for hopefully another cracker!

[Alexf1]

One thing that doesn't lie is data, right?

Max was very consistent doing 1:17 high to 1:18 low in the last 18 laps with an average laptime of 1:18.013

He could only improve to a 1:17.524 and repeated the same laptime with 1:17.526 after a slower cooldown lap of 1:18.261

That was the best he could do and it's clear that he went for the fastest lap twice.

Lewis' fastest lap of the race was a 1:16.702 which was 0.822s faster.

Hamilton had DRS and massive tow worth at least 0.6 on his fastest lap.

[dans79]

One thing is for sure, either Lewis had tire warmup issues, or Max had degradation issues in the first stint. Towards the end of the stint Lewis was taking chunks of time out of Max, and would have had an almost guaranteed undercut on the next lap.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... is_v01.pdf

Lap	        Ver	     Ham	 Delta	  Gap
7	1:36.303	1:39.225	 2.922	2.922
8	1:32.925	1:34.591	 1.666	4.588
9	1:30.953	1:31.302	 0.349	4.937
10	1:30.130	1:30.100	-0.030	4.907
11	1:29.168	1:28.724	-0.444	4.463
12	1:28.814	1:28.592	-0.222	4.241
13	1:28.119	1:28.250	 0.131	4.372
14	1:27.740	1:28.029	 0.289	4.661
15	1:27.059	1:27.072	 0.013	4.674
16	1:26.597	1:26.578	-0.019	4.655
17	1:26.605	1:27.501	 0.896	5.551
18	1:27.002	1:26.640	-0.362	5.189
19	1:27.068	1:27.021	-0.047	5.142
20	1:27.097	1:26.959	-0.138	5.004
21	1:28.626	1:28.283	-0.343	4.661
22	1:28.257	1:29.277	 1.020	5.681
23	1:29.532	1:28.421	-1.111	4.570
24	1:29.794	1:28.139	-1.655	2.915
25	1:28.967	1:28.842	-0.125	2.790
26	1:28.182	1:27.073	-1.109	1.681

The outliers are lap 17 and lap 22, and I haven't had time to go back and see if those are traffic or moments for hamilton!

[SiLo]

One thing that doesn't lie is data, right?

Max was very consistent doing 1:17 high to 1:18 low in the last 18 laps with an average laptime of 1:18.013

He could only improve to a 1:17.524 and repeated the same laptime with 1:17.526 after a slower cooldown lap of 1:18.261

That was the best he could do and it's clear that he went for the fastest lap twice.

Lewis' fastest lap of the race was a 1:16.702 which was 0.822s faster.

Hamilton had DRS and massive tow worth at least 0.6 on his fastest lap.

So he did that lap also in dirty air? Even more impressive.

[Slo Poke]

Worry not, peeps! The matter has been dealt with. I kid you not.

[godlameroso]

One thing is for sure, either Lewis had tire warmup issues, or Max had degradation issues in the first stint. Towards the end of the stint Lewis was taking chunks of time out of Max, and would have had an almost guaranteed undercut on the next lap.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... is_v01.pdf

Lap	        Ver	     Ham	 Delta	  Gap
7	1:36.303	1:39.225	 2.922	2.922
8	1:32.925	1:34.591	 1.666	4.588
9	1:30.953	1:31.302	 0.349	4.937
10	1:30.130	1:30.100	-0.030	4.907
11	1:29.168	1:28.724	-0.444	4.463
12	1:28.814	1:28.592	-0.222	4.241
13	1:28.119	1:28.250	 0.131	4.372
14	1:27.740	1:28.029	 0.289	4.661
15	1:27.059	1:27.072	 0.013	4.674
16	1:26.597	1:26.578	-0.019	4.655
17	1:26.605	1:27.501	 0.896	5.551
18	1:27.002	1:26.640	-0.362	5.189
19	1:27.068	1:27.021	-0.047	5.142
20	1:27.097	1:26.959	-0.138	5.004
21	1:28.626	1:28.283	-0.343	4.661
22	1:28.257	1:29.277	 1.020	5.681
23	1:29.532	1:28.421	-1.111	4.570
24	1:29.794	1:28.139	-1.655	2.915
25	1:28.967	1:28.842	-0.125	2.790
26	1:28.182	1:27.073	-1.109	1.681

Traffic played a big role in that more than tire wear. I saw the inters after they came off on both cars, they looked relatively the same. The RBR had a bit more inside shoulder wear, and Mercedes a bit better front wear, more even, the rears looked identical though.

[SmallSoldier]

So, drivers are allowed to unlap themselves on every single Safety Car and we have those a lot lately, but it bothers you that Hamilton unlapped himself under a Red Flag? I mean... Why the sudden outrage?


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[godlameroso]

Worry not, peeps! The matter has been dealt with. I kid you not.

Tire wear is a killer next round, that looooong right hand turn is murder on the rears.

[Phil]

So, drivers are allowed to unlap themselves on every single Safety Car and we have those a lot lately, but it bothers you that Hamilton unlapped himself under a Red Flag? I mean... Why the sudden outrage?


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I call it fear. Fear that this season will be Hamiltons yet again.

[basti313]

Yup, I feel it is unfair to say Bottas failed to make progress. Sure he is not as good as Hamilton in the wet but if overtaking was possible at all on a wet track it is only when the whole width is equally wet that you stand Any change. Once there is a dry line and you have To overtake on the wet part how is that going to work out, it would be a master feat. Russell got nowhere close to making it stick, it was almost impossible imho.

Yes, we did not see any overtakes in this race. Completely impossible. Especially in the DRS zone.

[dxpetrov]

Worry not, peeps! The matter has been dealt with. I kid you not.

Tire wear is a killer next round, that looooong right hand turn is murder on the rears.

Incorrect. That's actually a front left killer. As same as Barcelona first 5 corners.
Rear limited corners are those that follow the hard breaking.

[DChemTech]

So, drivers are allowed to unlap themselves on every single Safety Car and we have those a lot lately, but it bothers you that Hamilton unlapped himself under a Red Flag? I mean... Why the sudden outrage?


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I wouldn't call it outrage, but it's a fair question to ask "why does the issue pop up now?". And to that I posed a lengthy explanation some pages back: this time, there is much more at stake. Normally, it's not the reigning world champion/one of the main title contenders that benefits most from the procedure - this time it is, so it will naturally raise more discussion.

In my view, it's also not a matter of 'the rules are not fair!!!'. The rules will never be really fair, sometimes a driver is lucky, sometimes they are not. There are a lot of factors that can influence the outcome and odds that drivers have no control over. That's the way it is. Still, that should not be a reason to just view the rules as being some holy and unchangeable entity. It may be possible to make some rules fairer, clearer, or shift balance between rules that treat everyone equally (but, in rare cases potentially impact the championship disproportionally), vs. rules that aim at minimizing impact on championship outcome, but are less fair for backmarkers. Any ruleset, in that respect, is a balancing act. But that does also mean that that balance should be open for discussion, and naturally, such discussions tend to arise when a rule has an impact that benefits a contender.

As I also said previously, in my personal view, I'm quite indifferent about this particular rule. I recognize why people find it unfair when it benefits a championship contender driver (be it Hamilton, Verstappen or someone else), but I also recognize that won't be the case in the majority of applications - and that there are benefits to allowing drivers to unlap in most cases. And that alternatives, such as a timed-interval release from the pit lane, has its issues too.

What I do take issue with is that it seems we just cannot have such a discussion. When someone brings up "I find rule X unfair because...", the default response just seems to be "deal with it, it's the rules". Or "You're just salty because it doesn't advantage your driver" (and more bizarre accusations than that have unfortunately passed by, rather unjustly in my view). Sure, some fans may just be outraged. Others may bring it up because they find it a genuine point of issue, and would like to discuss that issue. It would be nice if the latter is taken seriously, too.

[WaikeCU]

One thing is for sure, either Lewis had tire warmup issues, or Max had degradation issues in the first stint. Towards the end of the stint Lewis was taking chunks of time out of Max, and would have had an almost guaranteed undercut on the next lap.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... is_v01.pdf

Lap	        Ver	     Ham	 Delta	  Gap
7	1:36.303	1:39.225	 2.922	2.922
8	1:32.925	1:34.591	 1.666	4.588
9	1:30.953	1:31.302	 0.349	4.937
10	1:30.130	1:30.100	-0.030	4.907
11	1:29.168	1:28.724	-0.444	4.463
12	1:28.814	1:28.592	-0.222	4.241
13	1:28.119	1:28.250	 0.131	4.372
14	1:27.740	1:28.029	 0.289	4.661
15	1:27.059	1:27.072	 0.013	4.674
16	1:26.597	1:26.578	-0.019	4.655
17	1:26.605	1:27.501	 0.896	5.551
18	1:27.002	1:26.640	-0.362	5.189
19	1:27.068	1:27.021	-0.047	5.142
20	1:27.097	1:26.959	-0.138	5.004
21	1:28.626	1:28.283	-0.343	4.661
22	1:28.257	1:29.277	 1.020	5.681
23	1:29.532	1:28.421	-1.111	4.570
24	1:29.794	1:28.139	-1.655	2.915
25	1:28.967	1:28.842	-0.125	2.790
26	1:28.182	1:27.073	-1.109	1.681

The outliers are lap 17 and lap 22, and I haven't had time to go back and see if those are traffic or moments for hamilton!

Long time no see all!

I think it's worn tires. Meaning, how good are both cars on worn tires. I think the Merc is perhaps a bit better than the RB on worn tires. Depends alot how badly the wear was. I heard HAM complaining on the radio that the left front was really suffering. Does that mean only that tire is really considered high degradation at that point. Is it only the fronts? How does that compare to the RB? Maybe Max had high degradation on his rear tires and just didn't have any decent drive off turns.

I still think we haven't really seen the true picking order after the first two races of the season. Bahrain is a doozy and Imola had changing conditions masking the race pace of everyone.

[Sieper]

Yup, I feel it is unfair to say Bottas failed to make progress. Sure he is not as good as Hamilton in the wet but if overtaking was possible at all on a wet track it is only when the whole width is equally wet that you stand Any change. Once there is a dry line and you have To overtake on the wet part how is that going to work out, it would be a master feat. Russell got nowhere close to making it stick, it was almost impossible imho.

Yes, we did not see any overtakes in this race. Completely impossible. Especially in the DRS zone.

indeed. Not when the track was wet, you are completely correct. they all happened after the second SC restart.