2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

[Jolle]

Based on several of the onboards, marshalls weren't waving flags for Max or Lewis, they seemed to be 100% relying on the light boards.

I've watched the onboard from both Hamilton and Russell a few times now, Russell moves to the outside of the track, opening up the inside and takes a wider line in approach to the corner to make room for Hamilton to take the apex.

I'm aware, that's his way of doing what he is required to do (let Lewis by), and loose the minimal amount of time to Bottas. Lewis should have just tucked in behind him and then complained on the radio.

Or attacked the corner 10km/h slower. He just misjudged the brakingpoint and grip or waited until after the cornet. Happens sometimes in these conditions.

[basti313]

On a damp track with only tramrails to drive, you can’t get off line to let someone pass.

AFAIK, the rules are pretty clear that if a blue flag is waved, the driver being shown the blue flag must yield and make room. That includes lifting, braking, getting out of the way etc.

If there is a dry line, then that responsibility goes to the driver who is required to take action (aka the driver being lapped). It's certainly not within the rules to wait for the next straight or something.

Straight or corner, I would expect a driver to make it easiest to being lapped by taking appropriate action immediately. It just so often happens that mostly it isn't done this way and the stewards are rather lenient in applying warnings and penalties (not always though!).

You have to give way within three marshal posts (who wave blue flags), not immediately. Although the front runners like it to be.

At the moment Hamilton slid off, Russell was still in his right taking the racing line, Hamilton didn't wait after tamburello where Russell was obliged to yield, but took a risk with an overtaking manoeuvre. Not Russell's fault.

I think with Tamburello you mean Tosa? I think you are right:
Ham was behind a Haas (Schu?) in Tamburello and overtook him right before Villeneuve. IF the blue signal in Villeneuve was already for Rus (would be quick...) then the blue signal before Tosa was the second one. So still plenty of room to go and I somehow doubt that the Villeneuve signal was already for Rus.

Rus also made it really bad in terms of pace vs. Bot. He was on the tail and in the braking zone to Tosa he gave up a second on Bot. If you look at it from Hams cam, once Ham goes to the left it looks like Rus going into a bus stop, collecting some people.

In this regard...Rus a bit triggered the move there at the same time Ham went for the move. So it looks like both had the idea that this is a good place...

Just going on by both and using a small lift the next straight would have been the better thing in all points.

[langedweil]

Lewis I think was tasing blood in the water and got too impatient. He probably knew he was screwed as soon as he moved the wheel to get around George, he was just a sitting duck from there on out. Lewis pretty much admitted he made a rare mistake in terms of being impatient.

I don't know why fans argue points of view, which sometimes contradict what was said, more passionately than the drivers themselves.

This is exactly the point .. this year there never was a RedBull dominance, it is as Sieper states; it might (!) be the end of Mercedes dominance leading to a more equally balanced overall performance for at least 2 teams (closely followed by two others).

Just that fact alone results in close racing on- and sometimes even over the edge, and while taking those risks is now needed for all championship contenders it will carry inevitably taking more risks in execution. And I think the large part of F1 enthusiasts only like that; make the driver the deciding factor, be it by brilliance or screwups .. let's say true drama.

It hasn't been like that for ages and now it's changing I only think the guys in front will rise above themselves by pushing eachother. All tricks and experiences have to be put up to extract even the thiniest differences; in driving, in talking, in psychological terms .. in literally everything. And errors will be made .. luckily.
Lewis' trip in the gravel is a good example; he wanted (rightfully so) to hunt down Max asap in passing the backmarkers, misjudged, owned up, dug himself out (while 99% would beach), got very lucky with the timing of the red flag, but maxxed out after being offered that same luck, and eventually got a podium out of it. That's just character, and sometimes opportunities arise to lessen a bad luck situation as long as you can keep looking through it.

Overall, in here, I guess the goat thing just fires up things for quite a few apparently, on both sides. It's totally irrelevant imho, but that is the main thing that creates Hell out of these race threads.
Securing a worldtitle in raceweekend 21/21 is so much more worth, than securing it at 13/21.

[Just_a_fan]

Russell moved to the right, opening the door to Hamilton. He also appeared to brake a bit early which would have also appeared like an invitation to Hamilton. Hamilton saw the gap and went for it but was just a touch too fast - perhaps only a few km/h too fast and the back end lost grip requiring an opposite lock moment which then took him off track. Hamilton said afterwards that he was too impatient and should have waited. On a dry track, the whole thing would have been a perfect example of a backmarker letting a leader through. It is a perfect example of "a racing incident".

[El Scorchio]

Securing a worldtitle in raceweekend 21/21 is so much more worth, than securing it at 13/21.

Unless Hamilton wins again, of course.

[Just_a_fan]

Overall, in here, I guess the goat thing just fires up things for quite a few apparently, on both sides. It's totally irrelevant imho, but that is the main thing that creates Hell out of these race threads.

The whole GOAT thing is pointless. Entirely pointless. There is no such thing as the GOAT F1 driver because the sport is nothing like it was 20 years ago, let alone 50 or 70 years ago. It's a thing thought up by the media and by people who want to get clicks on their websites and youtube channels. It's the equivalent of talking religion or politics at the dinner table. You know that it'll turn unpleasant before dessert arrives. And you know that any thread that starts to go down the GOAT rabbit hole will probably end up being locked by the mods.

[Just_a_fan]

Securing a worldtitle in raceweekend 21/21 is so much more worth, than securing it at 13/21.

Unless Hamilton wins again, of course.

I reckon that Max's fans will be disappointed if that happens, but if Max has taken him all the way to the last race, I reckon even they'll be fairly happy that he's managed to do it. Just as if Max wins the title at the last race, Lewis fans will be happy that it's been a season-long ding-dong battle with no obvious outcome until the end.

For transparency, I hope Lewis wins the title this year. But if Max beats him then "well done" to Max from me.

I wouldn't be surprised if this season isn't like 2016 where a single mechanical reliability issue with either Max or Lewis ends up deciding the title. That would be a shame.

[ispano6]

Getting sucked into another Max vs Lewis fan rivalry discussion it seems... Both camps should be pretty happy right now, we have a real fight on our hands to enjoy!

Sucked in? You asked for it.

We were a few degrees of spin more away from talking about Lewis winning this race and Max looking like an absolute fool.

[langedweil]

Securing a worldtitle in raceweekend 21/21 is so much more worth, than securing it at 13/21.

Unless Hamilton wins again, of course.

I reckon that Max's fans will be disappointed if that happens, but if Max has taken him all the way to the last race, I reckon even they'll be fairly happy that he's managed to do it. Just as if Max wins the title at the last race, Lewis fans will be happy that it's been a season-long ding-dong battle with no obvious outcome until the end.

For transparency, I hope Lewis wins the title this year. But if Max beats him then "well done" to Max from me.

True that, and from my perspective vice-versa ..
Just want knife-edge racing, the overall stand by the end isn't even that important to me.

[langedweil]

(dp)

[dans79]

Sucked in? You asked for it.

I think he was referring the fact that he knew certain people would respond!

[Phil]

You have to give way within three marshal posts (who wave blue flags), not immediately. Although the front runners like it to be.

My point wasn't about when Russel should have made way, but that the onus to make way was on him. It was in direct reply to your statement about the you can’t get off line to let someone pass. My point is that the rules are clear that the onus is on the driver making room to take appropriate action. That stipulates leaving the ideal racing line if necessary.

It is easier for the lapping car to allow the leaders through by going off the racing line (on the wet patch if you like while also reducing speed) than it is for the leader to go off line at a higher speed [than the car he is lapping] as that speed is dictated by the car he is passing.

This of course doesn't excuse the mistake or misjudgment Hamilton subjected himself to - though one can relate to it happening. Russel leaves sufficient room on the inside and indicates that this is where he is letting him pass - Lewis simply gauged his speed in getting to the apex early enough to complete that pass. Obviously, that speed did not match the available grip levels on that wet patch of the track.

This whole argument isn't new btw - it was brought up a couple of years ago when it was difficult for cars to get even close to the cars they were lapping due to dirty air.

[dans79]

This whole argument isn't new btw - it was brought up a couple of years ago when it was difficult for cars to get even close to the cars they were lapping due to dirty air.

I'm actually shocked by how fast Lewis made up ground once he got back on the lead lap.

[PlatinumZealot]

We were a few degrees of spin more away from talking about Lewis winning this race and Max looking like an absolute fool.

Yeah and just centimeters away from a crippled Hamilton looking like an absolute fool being a lap down and out of podium position and Max leading the championship, so you should be happy with the end result.

He had to hit the wall to get the back tyres out of the sand. So he already took all the centimeters available. Try again.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... dle-imola/

[Hoffman900]

The human element is what makes F1 entertaining.

If it was autonomous cars, it would be boring, even if they were faster and theoretically would be more “perfect”.

To quote Max, “we’re not robots”.

Instead of gimmicks like reverse grids, sprinklers, and whatever else dumb idea Crofty is shouting about, they need to add more human intervention in how the race is managed. I personally would like to see it go back to pit boards, just engine vitals on the dash, and let the drivers manage their own strategy, but I also get why it won’t ever be that way again.