How to decide success of sprint qualifying?

[jjn9128]

Is there a metric we can use which will determine the success of this weekends sprint qualifying?

Number of changes for position through the race? Does first lap count in that? Is that a bit binary? So do you scale overtakes per lap or by race distance and compare to the Sunday race?

Is it as simple as whether there is a change in start order between the Saturday and Sunday races? Do we just count top 4? Top 10?

[CMSMJ1]

The fans will need to feel that they have not been short changed.

A concept of another race is always welcome but this feels like a dogs dinner. Timings are terrible, 3 points scoring positions and a lack of opportunity to make a difference by keeping same tyres etc.

Not sure I like it -if I am blown away by the action, then maybe.... Free DRS at all times would be good - a la qually..

I think it will go down like a cheap date

[jjn9128]

The fans will need to feel that they have not been short changed.

A concept of another race is always welcome but this feels like a dogs dinner. Timings are terrible, 3 points scoring positions and a lack of opportunity to make a difference by keeping same tyres etc.

Not sure I like it -if I am blown away by the action, then maybe.... Free DRS at all times would be good - a la qually..

I think it will go down like a cheap date

But how are you going to determine the success/failure other than some vague feeling?

[rscsr]

imo there has to be some passing. If there is only a change of order because of the start, why bother with the rest of the race? I would count the whole field, since the everyone is in it and not only the leading teams.

[notsofast]

Collective success will have been achieved on Saturday if there are no overtakes on Sunday. All drivers will have managed to achieve their "natural" position in the sprint race based on their skill and their car's performance.

[Jolle]

Because of the unknown, teams will take a conservative approach. We’ll probably see if it’s a succes or not (or, in that respect, entertaining) after a few tries.

[nzjrs]

Collective success will have been achieved on Saturday if there are no overtakes on Sunday. All drivers will have managed to achieve their "natural" position in the sprint race based on their skill and their car's performance.

I think this is quite insightful and a good point.

However, I guess FOM/FIA want success to be 'interesting'.

I'll settle for a deviation in the sprint race finish from finishing order 2-by-2 (i.e. drivers in team order). So some measure of the average difference between team mates - but I'm still not sure if this is sprint-race relative to season mean, or relative to race, or relative to qualifying mean.

[Slo Poke]

If f1 could be likened to Horse Racing, then the upcoming weekend could be accurately likened to Doping.

[El Scorchio]

It's a very good question. There's no real way of measuring if it's successful or not.

One thought- everyone comes through it unscathed without major drama or bad luck. That would mean a very boring sprint race, though. (Success for the teams and probably people like us)

The other thought- it's a wild race with loads of drama, offs, DNFs and things that put several cars wildly out of position on Sunday. (Success for 'the show' and casuals with no attention span or thought as to how 'fair' it is in the big picture)

I expect FOM would perversely consider the latter to be a success. However it would be awful if one of Verstappen of Hamilton (for example- just because it's the most meaningful scenario for the championship) has an off, is taken out, or DNFs the sprint race and has to start from the back on Sunday, which ruins the actual Grand Prix before it even starts.

The only real interest for me is how the teams go about managing it in terms of tyres, practice schedule, setup etc. Largely I think it's a silly fad which will be consigned quickly to the scrapheap.

[CMSMJ1]

The fans will need to feel that they have not been short changed.

A concept of another race is always welcome but this feels like a dogs dinner. Timings are terrible, 3 points scoring positions and a lack of opportunity to make a difference by keeping same tyres etc.

Not sure I like it -if I am blown away by the action, then maybe.... Free DRS at all times would be good - a la qually..

I think it will go down like a cheap date

But how are you going to determine the success/failure other than some vague feeling?

It's a tough one isn't it? The weekend format is messed around to provide tea time sessions - most people, in a normal non covid works, will be travelling. The race needs to have a point to it. Using a 3rd length event to determine grid on sunday is desperate.

What is the requirement here? To determine success, we have to know what we are trying to do - and that, to me, is not clear.

Added excitement?
More overtaking?
More crashes?
Risks of reliability causing the 'leaders' to be disbenefited?

For me to think this is a worthy successor/alternative to the current weekend format I would want to see:

Aggression and will to win - the cars being used to their full potential
No fuel saving
no tyre saving - free choice - if some teams think they can be fast on soft and make them last - go for it.
zero f~@cks given when going for that divebomb overtake.

It is not clear enough what is broken and so the fix doesn't fit.

A solution looking for a problem...

[Nickel]

This all just feels like a compromise on what it could've been. I agree that it somewhat feels like adding 100km to the race distance with a red flag in the middle that lasts 24hrs... they likely outcome is that things will just filter into their natural order more quickly, thus rendering Sunday's race more processional.

The only way it won't do that is via misfortune, which is not what the sport should be seeking to achieve.

The teams didn't want reverse grids but I think that was a mistake. Award points for Friday qualifying, which sets the grid for a reverse grid sprint race. Award no points for the sprint race, just set the grid for the Sunday race. Personally, I would find this a less contrived way of creating interest while also putting skills on display that we don't see often enough.

[jjn9128]

I'm not looking to discuss the merits of the format. I'm open (if sceptical) until I see it in action. I'm looking for a way to qualify the success or failure.

Maybe that's impossible.

[Fulcrum]

Two words.

Viewership.
Revenue.

F1 doesn't give a fig about the opinions distributed in forums.

[El Scorchio]

I'm not looking to discuss the merits of the format. I'm open (if sceptical) until I see it in action. I'm looking for a way to qualify the success or failure.

Maybe that's impossible.

I think 'success' is going to be a different thing to different stakeholders. FOM will consider it a success if it makes more money and brings more casual viewers in. That probably means (hoping for) a lot of mayhem, drama and incident, which the teams and most 'serious' viewers will not consider successful. The teams I think will consider it a success just to get through it with no setbacks and retain their friday positions

Personally, I think it'll lead to very conservative racing on the whole because almost everyone is so risk averse, and it'll soon be scrapped or 'reimagined'. The only likely big stories to come out of it will be negative, such as a frontrunner getting damage or a DNF thus ruining Sunday. So overall, unsuccessful.

[theblackangus]

However it would be awful if one of Verstappen of Hamilton (for example- just because it's the most meaningful scenario for the championship) has an off, is taken out, or DNFs the sprint race and has to start from the back on Sunday, which ruins the actual Grand Prix before it even starts.

Does it?
Its happened where these guys qualify grossly out of order and fight back to the top/near top giving a good race.